Aimesh Sticky Client Issue

[Tech9]

Just to add - I've done extensive experiments with wired and wireless AiMesh and I know exactly the behaviour many are seeing. If you upgrade to something like controller managed Omada multi-AP system with all the clients tracking and dynamically adjusted AP power behind their proprietary assistive technologies - you'll feel like reborn in a different better world. It's actually better than my UniFi setups in terms of roaming and comes cheaper. And since it has full VLAN support the gateway can be different vendor device. I know a few SNB Forum members with x86 gateway running their router OS of choice (mostly pfSense/OPNsense) and Omada for Wi-Fi.

If the budget is limited and "wireless mesh" (using consumer marketing terms) is a must - look at Qualcomm based home mesh systems with mesh support on SoC/driver level. Google Nest and Amazon Eero as an example, some TP-Link Deco systems. They learn the environment and adjust the main unit and satellite power accordingly. It takes some time, but works well without user interaction. You can relocate the units and just wait. They come with some limitations, but are acceptable "Easy Button" solution for 2-3 units.

 

[mswlogo]

For me, my AiMesh has been working good enough for the amount of time I put into it, for years. I have way more critical things to be working on, or learning (e.g. AI) and everything was functioning just fine. I see folks having way more issues than I ever did.

I had one minor annoyance, I didn’t have to address, but decided to give it a shot. Learned a bit more about its quirky behavior of AiMesh and got things running a lot nicer for not too much time investment and shared it.

Oh and I think the annoyance, going from a Tesla 22 S to a 25 X having connections issues (only needed for occasional software updates) was more the car than my network and I was trying to compensate for it. I found that odd because it shouldn’t be that different.

In fact, that’s what the problems always are for me. Some outlier device, misbehaving. For decades, it’s usually some odd ball, dumb IoT device.

I was also determined to not add or replace hardware to fix my annoyance. Because that would cost a lot of time. You know, the devil you know… Car would connect fine in front of the house, not in the garage. Once I learned the system was more archaic than I thought I was temped to replace it. But I suspect it would be a huge time sync and a chunk of money and in the end, not run all that much better. Maybe less annoyances down the line. And I’d bet I’d have a new outlier device that didn’t like it (almost a guarantee).

My biggest concern is how much net time anything will cost.

 

[Tech9]

If you can afford 25 X you can also afford paying someone to build a proper system for your needs. Most people won't think twice about purchasing expensive visible to others items, but cheap out on invisible to others home infrastructure. A nice home Wi-Fi system perhaps fits in the price of a new iPhone Pro Max whatever... So you are a victim of: 1) consumer marketing; 2) own decisions.

People call a professional for electrical, water supply, HVAC, drain/sewer, etc. essential home infrastructure systems for two reasons: 1) licence needed; 2) not enough knowledge to DIY. IT network become equally essential home infrastructure system, but because licence is not needed most people would stop at BestBuy and attempt DIY regardless of the knowledge level. In today's IoT world this DIY system is expected to automate all the rest done by a professional. I find it rather strange, but the aggressive consumer marketing mixed with false advertising encourages this common behaviour. If DIY attempt is unsuccessful for whatever reason - waste of time and money.

 

[degrub]

Really, for most residential cases, the ISP provided equipment is adequate. The members of these forums just want, among other things, to make their own or improve over the ISP gear. We are a small number in the scheme of things though. So the marketing is hyped, features half baked, and many routers sold.

 

[mswlogo]

If you can afford 25 X you can also afford paying someone to build a proper system for your needs. Most people won't think twice about purchasing expensive visible to others items, but cheap out on invisible to others home infrastructure. A nice home Wi-Fi system perhaps fits in the price of a new iPhone Pro Max whatever... So you are a victim of: 1) consumer marketing; 2) own decisions.

People call a professional for electrical, water supply, HVAC, drain/sewer, etc. essential home infrastructure systems for two reasons: 1) licence needed; 2) not enough knowledge to DIY. IT network become equally essential home infrastructure system, but because licence is not needed most people would stop at BestBuy and attempt DIY regardless of the knowledge level. In today's IoT world this DIY system is expected to automate all the rest done by a professional. I find it rather strange, but the aggressive consumer marketing mixed with false advertising encourages this common behaviour. If DIY attempt is unsuccessful for whatever reason - waste of time and money.

I can afford a Tesla X because I learn to do most things myself, which in the end, saves time and money. Not always, but 99% of the time it does. Besides, why would I hire someone, when what I have is working perfectly fine? And if I was paying someone, how would I have enough knowledge to know there is even a problem with the installation?

You don’t seem to get it. The AiMesh was and still is working absolutely fine. It just wasn’t optimized as much as I would like it to and it was mostly the car that was being stupid. By optimizing the AiMesh (with a sledge hammer) I hope that will compensate for the car being a bit dumb. And as a bonus that it improved all the dumber IoT devices too (which could tolerate being on less than ideal node), the car could not. Work around before was reboot or move the car to get an update downloaded.

I think the car is doing something around power saving. So what I think happens is as I drive in it connects to the node furthest from the garage first. Then I pull in the garage. If the car stayed awake it probably would roam to the closer node to garage, eventually. But it goes to sleep first. It caches that connection. The car switches to LTE when it sleeps to save power. It does periodically check in. LTE is a bit weak in the garage too. Which probably doesn’t help either. When it wakes it switches WiFi back on keeps connecting to the same marginal node further away. I think something like that is happening. WiFi from that one closet node is now plenty strong enough.

With my work around. Now, every time I check the car or routers all looks fantastic.

Don’t get me started on hiring professionals to do anything to save time. If you want it done right, …

 

[penguin22]

Just to add - I've done extensive experiments with wired and wireless AiMesh and I know exactly the behaviour many are seeing. If you upgrade to something like controller managed Omada multi-AP system with all the clients tracking and dynamically adjusted AP power behind their proprietary assistive technologies - you'll feel like reborn in a different better world. It's actually better than my UniFi setups in terms of roaming and comes cheaper. And since it has full VLAN support the gateway can be different vendor device. I know a few SNB Forum members with x86 gateway running their router OS of choice (mostly pfSense/OPNsense) and Omada for Wi-Fi.

I do think a system like this could make sense if you specifically require wireless mesh including the APs wirelessly connecting to one another, though if using wired, I don't know that there is large value vs. the increased technical overhead required to set up pfSense/OPNsense, etc. For many consumers, they are going to buy whatever boxed 'set it and forget it' mesh product is available and never look back. For us on here, the value of a Merlin supported router with the built-in, integrated capabilities, can warrant the configuration burden necessary to get things working as desired. This can mean a more simplified setup than alternatives.

 

[penguin22]

I feel that a 'start here' overview with some worthwhile to configuration settings would make sense, especially when moving from the legacy N/AC/AX family products without Guest Network Pro (GNP) to AX Pro/BE series. There is a lot of valuable knowledge in these forums, yet no sticky post covering some of the key, need to know, settings to pay attention to.

Having made the switch over the past month from an older, non-Pro, AX mesh setup to new 'Pro' BE setup (BE88U/BE86U/BE82U), there are several important things that I would have found helpful:

• If moving from existing N/AC/AX (non-Pro), you need to move all nodes to Pro/BE for full functionality.
• Not all Pro/BE devices have the same capabilities:
  • BE96U/BE88U/BE86U all support wireless and wired VLAN tagging (possibly others, though not clear)
  • BE82U/BE58U only (officially) support wireless VLAN tagging; this may include other models, like the BE92U, though I have not tested and would need input from others.
  • If you use wireless AiMesh and want the best performance, make sure you get a router with 4x4 5GHz capabilities (if within range). 4x4 5GHz can also help with client connectivity and performance.
• Smart Connect and client roaming is why many of us buy into mesh supported systems; moving to unique SSIDs for different bands and or AP connectivity is a band-aid (pun intended) and really shouldn't be accepted.
• Plan your layout appropriately, try to avoid too much overlap to support client roaming to nodes based on configurations.
• In Wireless\General:
  • Identify the least used 2.4 GHz control channel and manually set; use 20 MHz channel bandwidth as it will have less wireless conflict with other devices and extend usable range.
  • Identify the lease used 5 GHz control channel and manually set; if you are near an airport or somewhere that DFS restrictions can impact full 160/320 MHz channel bandwidth, either set to a control channel outside of typical DFS range or leave 80 MHz channel bandwidth to avoid impact. If you do not require the full channel bandwidth for LAN performance or have a WAN connection requiring the full bandwidth performance (>1200Mbps), consider leaving at 80 MHz for improved range and stability.
• Disable 11b if you are able to; very old and causes IoT device connectivity instability. On older N/AC/AX routers, this was on the main Wireless page (though only applied to the main router, not mesh nodes). On BE routers, this is on Wireless\Professional\802.11b mode, and is enabled by default likely for compatibility reasons.
• I have found that Smart Connect rules can remain at the default settings and changes do not meaningfully assist with client migration between nodes in my experience, with some other settings having more impact...
• ...Wireless\Professional\Roaming Assistant, however, has helped and needs to be configured independently for each band:
  • If you want clients to stay on 2.4GHz without frequent roaming, leave at -70 or adjust to -72 (or equivalent) to avoid 2.4GHz driving client roaming since it has more range than 5 or 6GHz
  • To support clients roaming based on 5GHz (possibly 6GHz as well), adjust to -65 (or equivalent based on testing in your own environment). This will allow clients to disconnect more readily based on 5GHz strength when you have good AiMesh coverage. When making this change, testing should be over several hours to allow for the band steering to occur from the routers, though once balanced, I have found that I can walk through my house with my phone and see if actively switch between my 3 nodes based on 5GHz signal strength rather than 2.4GHz (using WiFi 7 MLO in my case connecting to both bands at the same time).
• WiFi 7 mode and MLO can function stability and do not need to be disabled if your configurations are functioning, though is likely recommended to only use on networks (SSIDs) that have clients that will benefit and have support (e.g., the main network and guest network), and not to use it for IoT networks.

 

[Tech9]

You don’t seem to get it.

Your sequential boot optimizing attempts are result of failure to identify the cause of the problem.

For reference, following are the General Wireless\Professional settings...

You are on the same limited configuration options AiMesh boat with the same channels and no power control. Just got more lucky than others because your routers happen to be in okay locations. The same channels means your routers wait for each other to send/receive data. The same max allowed power means you have no idea what Wi-Fi heat map you get. Asuswrt doesn't provide dBm/EIRP data in WebUI and your Performance setting may be up to 5x times different than someone else's Performance setting, region dependent. This by itself makes sharing settings pointless.

 

[Tech9]

By the way, I saw a screenshot from ExpertWiFi device with the above consumer AiMesh limitations addressed. I don't know how well it currently works and ExpertWiFi devices are really limited models, but may be future upgrade option for folks who prefer ASUS equipment. This also tells me ASUS knows very well what needs to be done. If it comes to consumer devices one day - big improvement.

 

[mswlogo]

People call a professional for electrical, water supply, HVAC, drain/sewer, etc. essential home infrastructure systems for two reasons: 1) licence needed; 2) not enough knowledge to DIY. IT network become equally essential home infrastructure system, but because licence is not needed most people would stop at BestBuy and attempt DIY regardless of the knowledge level. In today's IoT world this DIY system is expected to automate all the rest done by a professional. I find it rather strange, but the aggressive consumer marketing mixed with false advertising encourages this common behaviour. If DIY attempt is unsuccessful for whatever reason - waste of time and money.

OMG, I didn't catch this earlier. Professional Electricians and Plumbers are a total joke. I don't want to get to far off here. They will rob you blind, they rush, so many do sh$t work. I just built a house and had fire both Electrician and Plumber both locally respected and reviewed, mostly because most home owners are clueless. And it's not the first time either.

 

[mswlogo]

Your sequential boot optimizing attempts are result of failure to identify the cause of the problem.

And what do you claim is now broken in my home?

• that you know very little about,
• or my budget,
• or my available time,
• or my priorities,
• or what resources are nearby,
• or my criteria of what I consider as working well

Everything is connected to the nearest node. If I get a power glitch, which I occasionally do. Everything comes up clean, and comes up clean quickly in a more optimal lay out (not a requirement, but a nice bonus) My car now always shows a solid wifi, every time I get in. I didn't have to buy any hardware. I didn't have to learn a new system. I didn't have to pay anyone. I learned that AiMesh is a bit more archaic than I thought it was. But It still fills my needs even better than it was. Yet you keep pushing, YOU FAILED, you have no clue as to what you are doing, you learned nothing, your system is still broken. I think part of the root problem is the car. And sure, I could use other solutions to solve it, but I have no need to now. Switching to AP and tweaking power on each node. No, total waste of time IMHO. If I did that I'd have to put an AP in the garage, and another out in the yard. And no, I'm not gonna get into "directional" solutions.

I did consider:

• Switching to AP's, but I knew that would be a royal pain, I've done it before
• Using a single router, a lot simpler, and just live with car being marginal in the garage
• A new more professional system, but it would take a lot of time to fully understand what they can and cannot do and what that cost would be (my guess is around $1200)

Only issue I had, if I ran a single node:

• The car couldn't reach in the garage reliably
• Occasionally, depending on weather, I'd periodically lose a blink camera (I have 12 outdoors, some 200 ft away from the house through the woods)
• So I moved one router from center of house to corner closest to garage (that would lose some Blinks), and added another router on the other extreme of the house.

Now with the AiMesh, signal strength on those two extremes is really good, and it's good under many conditions (power fail, car pulling in and seeing other nodes before entering the garage, car sleeping, bad weather (Snow cover) on blinks)

BTW, I ran 1/2" PEX to every major room and closet on every floor to the cellar. So I could upgrade wiring, move things easy, add network wiring any time in the future
Tell me how many professional electricians would have done that? I can tell you, NONE. One of the smartest moves I ever made
And it was way cheaper than over wiring the house, which is what most "Pro's" do and would have cost a fortune and never fully utilized, why? because they make a boat load more money
If I asked them to put in PEX and leave, they would have passed on a more profitable job they can over wire.

 

[Ripshod]

Professional Electricians and Plumbers are a total joke. I don't want to get to far off here. They will rob you blind, they rush, so many do sh$t work.

I object!
You don't appreciate who's reading this.

 

[Tech9]

I would like to read about similar workarounds used in wiring and plumbing. Sequential flipping of breakers or opening valves so the electrons and molecules go more straight.

 

[jksmurf]

And what do you claim is now broken in my home?

I think part of the root problem is the car.

Eureka, there’s the solution staring you in the face.
You clearly just need to get a new car…

 

[mswlogo]

I object!
You don't appreciate who's reading this.

Sorry if you are an Electrician or Plumber, but they have been rotten to the core. Absolutely ripoff morons. I ended up finishing and/or redoing half there work.
That's the sugar coated version of what I think. I know there are good ones. But they are extremely rare.

 

[mswlogo]

Eureka, there’s the solution staring you in the face.
You clearly just need to get a new car…

Don't think so, car is ~3 months old, still it's the devil you know. It's my 4th, and really nothing else can touch its tech.
No other car actually has this problem because no other brand updates firmware nearly as often or at all OTA.
Although sometimes I wish I didn't get the last major update. No Merlin or flashing back here

 

[mswlogo]

I would like to read about similar workarounds used in wiring and plumbing. Sequential flipping of breakers or opening valves so the electrons and molecules go more straight.

My workarounds, fire them before they do more damage and redo or finish the work. Took me about 2 years (weekends, evenings, vacations). Still have some electrical to redo.

 

[Tech9]

Lower cost SMB systems like Omada and UniFi are not at all hard to understand, deploy and manage. I would say both actually have easier better structured UI than Asuswrt-Merlin. The reason I run few UniFi systems is the integration. All sites can be managed from a single screen or from a phone app. I don't have to look at neither because they have monitoring and send push notifications if something goes wrong. You just have to make the step forward once to appreciate the differences. The main difference is between dealing with workarounds and total system control. Perhaps everything works for me because I got rid of the Tesla and switched to 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 firing order as daily driver? I don't know.

 

[degrub]

Some of us like the challenge of tinkering and doing our own thing. i know. i plumbed, wired, and trimmed out the house i built. But i knew what the gold standard was and followed it. Did the same for the network gear a few years later. Straight up SMB gear since i didn't want to waste my time/money. Been there, done that. Cost double versus ASUS/consumer gear at the time. Still running without issues.

So if you want to keep tinkering, no sweat. Go for it. It will always be there for you.

 

[mswlogo]

Lower cost SMB systems like Omada and UniFi are not at all hard to understand, deploy and manage. I would say both actually have easier better structured UI than Asuswrt-Merlin. The reason I run few UniFi systems is the integration. All sites can be managed from a single screen or from a phone app. I don't have to look at neither because they have monitoring and send push notifications if something goes wrong. You just have to make the step forward once to appreciate the differences. The main difference is between dealing with workarounds and total system control. Perhaps everything works for me because I got rid of the Tesla and switched to 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 firing order as daily driver? I don't know.

Maybe you should have hired a pro to get your Tesla working. They have been really good for me.