Deciding between AC86U and AX58U- specific requiremnts

[viperaberus]

Hello
First of all I'm aware there was similar thread, but I can't call it decisive. There's a lot written here about AC86U both positive and negative, but I can't found anything specific about AX58U. I'm planning to replace crappy ISP-provided Sagecom, which is constantly dropping connection with something less annoying. I was almost sure I will buy AC86U until I have read lots of bad reviews related to dying 2.4 GHz radios and connection dropping on 5 GHz, than I've found quite nice offer for AX58U. My network consists of QNAP NAS, NVR, PS4, Rasberry Pi working as an audio player (wired), two smartphones, iPad, two laptops, Fire Stick 4k, two Kindles (wireless- 5 GHz ac except of ricecooker and kindles. I live in small 100 square meter house build of brick, without any meaningful interference form neighbors networks. I don't need any filesharing capabilities, because I have dedicated NAS. VPN is moderately important (I will use router as OpenVPN server to access my LAN from time to time). Router has to support WAN VLAN for Internet which is required by my ISP who offers also IPTV and VoIP (one VLAN is ok, because I'm not interested in any extra services) along with PPPoE. My Internet connection is 300/50 FTTH (I can upgrade it to 1000/200). Horizontal construction is preferred because my wife opposes to buying something as visible when installed on shelf in the living room as AC86U.

My research gave me those results:
AC86U:
pros: Merlin software, great VPN speeds, probably better handling of multiple devices, 4x4 (does it really metter?)
cons: failing radios (21% negative reviews on Amazon is scary), connection drops for some people, looks (can't lie flat)
AX58U:
pros: looks, probably better speed in future when I would replace older laptop, no mayor complaints about stability,
cons: no Merlin software (not sure if it won't change, statement that it won't be one was based on false assumption it is Intel-based), 2x2
unkown: VLAN support and if it reduces speed, transfers when using ac devices
Should I add some points? Something is wrong?

Which one would you chose for my network? AC86U would be around 155 EUR, AX58U- around 140 EUR. I'm choosing between those two because widely recommended Netgear 7800 is significantly more expensive here, cheaper Netgears (7000 derivatives) are somewhat old designs as AC68U is, Synology is again quite expensive (over 200 EUR), AAC88U is more expensive than AC86U and has worse CPU, Tp-Links don't get many updates form manufacturer and don't have option to install alternative software.

Thanks for help!

 

[Trip]

Either way, you're essentially buying more of the same: commodity Broadcom SoC, switch and wifi in a box. Not necessarily a bad move, but I wouldn't call either a total paradigm shift from one another. That said, in my opinion, AX isn't worth it until at least this time next year, when OFDMA, etc. may actually be working in both APs and clients (the whole point to begin with, more or less...). In the consumer space especially, there's no guarantee the pre-draft 1 AX stuff you buy now will be properly patched, by any OEM, so it's best to wait until well after draft 1 and buy that hardware with official, mature firmware and drivers. Moral: AC Wave 2 for now is just fine.

Regarding the R7800, how about the Zyxel NBG6817 in your market? Internals are identical to the R7800. Zyxel has likely done a better job with their factory firmware stability, as well. Also OpenWRT-flashable. Plus the QCA stuff will typically deliver 10-20% more usable throughput at range versus most Broadcom boxes. YMMV of course.

 

[Val D.]

AC86U:
pros: Merlin software, great VPN speeds, probably better handling of multiple devices, 4x4 (does it really metter?)
cons: failing radios (21% negative reviews on Amazon is scary), connection drops for some people, looks (can't lie flat)

More pros: excellent WiFi range and throughput for AIO device
More cons: still not fully optimized software causing low memory conditions, therefore may need reboots from time to time in order to continue working properly; doesn't soft reboot properly sometimes and may require physical access to it, perhaps a hardware issue; the combination of "may need reboots" and "may not reboot properly" is priceless

My advice - stay away from it.

 

[viperaberus]

Thanks! I'm crossing out AC86U. Would R7800/Zyxel work with gigabit connection with PPPoE and VLAN without cutting much speed? I don't want to change it again, when I decide to upgrade.

I'm finding something wrong with every all-in-one router I find, starting thinking about going for something like Ubiquity Edge Router + APs.

 

[TNCS]

the combination of "may need reboots" and "may not reboot properly" is priceless

Ha ha ha, joke of the day for me

I'm finding something wrong with every all-in-one router I find

Pretty sums it up... You can't have everything... RMerlin supported router is probably the best you can get without overly exceeding your budget within the class range...

Ubiquity Edge Router + APs

But surely this goes above your budget? Bare in mind even try to squeeze within budget, assuming you going for UAP AC Lite and ER-X/Lite, the performance of ER-X/Lite is around 300Mbs which is practically your limit now without possible of future upgrade. Enabling any feature like QoS, DPI or worse IPS/DPS will further drop that 300Mb number...

 

[Trip]

the performance of ER-X/Lite is around 300Mbs which is practically your limit now without possible of future upgrade. Enabling any feature like QoS, DPI or worse IPS/DPS will further drop that 300Mb number...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but just running NAT with no special services and hw-offload enabled, the ER-X will do just under 1Gb/s aggregate (so, 450/450 for example). It's only when enabling QoS or anything requiring routing via CPU that throughput would drop into the 150Mb-ish range.

 

[Trip]

Would R7800/Zyxel work with gigabit connection with PPPoE and VLAN without cutting much speed? I don't want to change it again, when I decide to upgrade.

If you run stock firmware and don't enable anything that breaks hardware-acceleration, yes, they'll do 1Gb/s no problem. That said, I don't believe PPPoE is hardware-offloadable. That plus OpenVPN will require routing via CPU, and that 1.8Ghz ARM chip would do maybe a couple hundred Mb/s of OpenVPN at the most. Perhaps that's enough for your needs? If not, you'd probably need to look at x86-class hardware, or a much lighter-weight VPN protocol, such as WireGuard via OpenWRT (where you could transit at basically line-rate with very minimal CPU impact).

I'm finding something wrong with every all-in-one router I find, starting thinking about going for something like Ubiquity Edge Router + APs.

No component is perfect; all the more reason why I like running them discretely -- separate wired router, switch(es) (if needed) and wireless AP system. But high-enough performance gear is likely beyond your budget, although an ER-X and an AC-LITE would be a good way to get your feet wet at least. For the speeds you ultimately want, though, you'd likely need an i3 or i5-based Protectli/Qotom embedded appliance or a used SFF PC with a multi-NIC card running, running OpenWRT or pfSense, plus a UniFi switch and a NanoHD or FlexHD -- that would be hundreds over your budget, but would definitely get the job done, for sure.

 

[Darcy]

AC86U has been flawless since day one for me. Never had an issue with it.


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[lukaszzsch]

AC86U has been flawless since day one for me. Never had an issue with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I had two.

One bought in China with broken 2.4 radio
Second one bought in Poland and working flawlessy until today.

But yes, using 86u is like a lottery.

 

[TNCS]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but just running NAT with no special services and hw-offload enabled, the ER-X will do just under 1Gb/s aggregate (so, 450/450 for example). It's only when enabling QoS or anything requiring routing via CPU that throughput would drop into the 150Mb-ish range.

Yes, provide the firmware you're on doesn't break the hardward offload. ER-X had a shaky history on breaking the NAT hardware offload (not sure now, hasn't used on in 2 years)... And to look at the fancy feature and knowing most will break the hardware offload is, well..... I'm listing a practical use speed here, as the IPS/DPS is so attractive, yet the worst performance penalty. Personally at the ER-X price range, I think I would opt for an Mikrotik hexS instead.

 

[Trip]

Yes, provide the firmware you're on doesn't break the hardward offload. ER-X had a shaky history on breaking the NAT hardware offload (not sure now, hasn't used on in 2 years)... And to look at the fancy feature and knowing most will break the hardware offload is, well..... I'm listing a practical use speed here, as the IPS/DPS is so attractive, yet the worst performance penalty. Personally at the ER-X price range, I think I would opt for an Mikrotik hexS instead.

Interesting. I've had 20+ of them deployed for customers for now 3 years running, most with QoS on, so my configs are almost always non hw-offloaded, but general operation has been fairly flawless. I hope Mikrotik puts support for fq_codel or CAKE into RouterOS 7 (I've voted for it on their forums already, multiple times); nested queues and SQM are decent, but nowhere near as able to optimize flows -- that's the only thing I really miss about the platform right now.

 

[System Error Message]

It will be a while before AX becomes the norm, even many devices in the 3rd world are still 2.4Ghz only and even in the past with wireless A around most chips were 2.4Ghz only.

So my suggestion is if you want what rmerlin firmware offers, buy the AC86U, otherwise if the AX58U has a better CPU for your needs, get that instead as it would have wifi AC too.

 

[TNCS]

Interesting. I've had 20+ of them deployed for customers for now 3 years running, most with QoS on, so my configs are almost always non hw-offloaded, but general operation has been fairly flawless. I hope Mikrotik puts support for fq_codel or CAKE into RouterOS 7 (I've voted for it on their forums already, multiple times); nested queues and SQM are decent, but nowhere near as able to optimize flows -- that's the only thing I really miss about the platform right now.

Well, I would say your experience was certainly better than mine. I no longer use the ER-X/Lite, but hex's if I were to aiming for that range. I still deploy the ER-4 now and then if the scenario fit, but typically I restrict myself to bandwidth less than 300Mbs 1:1 services. Either than the smaller SME that has no serious requirement, I hardly use fq_codel as an QoS option, it generally the old school for me.