Is Unifi worth the upgrade?

[chrismsales]

So I've been reading quite a few of the posts regarding Asus vs Unifi and now I'm really starting to wonder if it's worth the investment, especially since my network has been struggling over the last few weeks.

I currently have AT&T 2GB fiber connection with the BGW620-700 running in IP Passthrough mode with an Asus GT-AX6000 upstairs as my main router, and then an older Asus RT-AX88U downstairs running in AIMesh mode. In the backyard pool house about 200 feet away I have an Asus RPAX56 extender also in AiMesh mode. Both AiMesh devices are hardwire backhaul, not WiFi. Everything usually runs good outside of the frequent reboots needed on the GT-AX6000 usually twice a week or so to keep my speeds decent. After the last Merlin firmware update I started getting high packet losses and what appeared to be a double NAT type issue, even though everything on the AT&T BGW600 and the GT 6000 was configured correctly, like it has been for over a year. I tried doing a reset on the GT6000 which did not to help at all and then even purchased an Asus BE-7200 to see if that made a difference, which it did on the various issues I was having but my wifi speeds are now about half of what they were before.

I'm going to perform a complete factory reset of the GT 6000 and the AT&T BGW620 this weekend, and started thinking that if I'm going to do all of this I should make sure I have things running as optimal as possible.

So...

Would another GT6000 be better for the AiMesh downstairs? Or since they are Ethernet backhaul, would AP mode be better instead of AiMesh?

Or would investing in the Unifi give me better stability with the network which now has grown to about 75 various devices which includes Arlo cameras, Lutron switches, Sonos speakers, Android streaming boxes, and smart bulbs/plugs in every room of the house. We already have Ethernet connections in every room of the house, including outside pool house area, so there are no limitations there for access points.

Everything I've read about Unifi sounds appealing, but with my current setup would I just be wasting money to not gain much compared to the current setup?

 

[Tech9]

Or would investing in the Unifi give me better stability

Yes. If you have wired infrastructure - don't waste your time with consumer products. I run 3x interconnected UniFi home networks with uptime since installed if we don't count UniFi OS updates requiring Gateway reboot. And you'll find advanced and at the same time easy to use features like Zone-Based Firewall and Object Oriented Networking. If you really want full control of your network and you are not afraid of learning new things - go ahead. Higher initial investment, but better hardware with better software.

 

[JoeHz]

Gotta be honest here, I was thrilled with Asus and AiMesh until the day I wasn't.

What killed it for me was an older AC device I relegated into AIMesh duties stripped off VLAN identifiers from the packets it was passing on. This is an unacceptable failure mode for any product. Unmanaged switches don't do that to the data they pass on, so a "dumb" or even a not-so-dumb wifi extender shouldn't either. Either support a feature or don't, but don't silently break them.

In an instant, I went from loyal Asus customer to being unable to trust them. I now use a Unifi DM and I'm quite happy.

 

[chrismsales]

If you really want full control of your network and you are not afraid of learning new things - go ahead. Higher initial investment, but better hardware with better software.

Thank you for your response, and it sounds like this would be the best for long term. Learning new things is not a fear though I am limited in my networking skills, but I’ve made it this far with our smart home setup. Having a Hubitat Hub has been way more in depth than I had ever imagined.

Can I ask what all components are needed to have the right setup to manage our network? One main router and then two Unifi AP’s - with one being outdoor rated?

Also, do the Unifo AP’s need to be ceiling mounted or can they be wall mounted? Almost all of our Ethernet drips are behind tvs on the walls.

Thanks again

 

[chrismsales]

In an instant, I went from loyal Asus customer to being unable to trust them. I now use a Unifi DM and I'm quite happy.

I've updated my Asus routers every 2 to 3 years due to random 5GHz issues so I just feel like I'm constantly throwing money away. I'm also just growing tired of always needing to reboot everything once or twice a week to keep things running smoothly.

 

[Tech9]

Can I ask what all components are needed to have the right setup to manage our network?

UniFi systems have four components - Gateway, Controller, Switch and Access Point.

I personally would replace the Asus routers you have with the following devices:

Gateway, Controller, Switch 3-in-1, 2.5GbE WAN/LAN, (USB-C power)

Cloud Gateway Max NS - Ubiquiti Store

Compact 2.5G Cloud Gateway with 30+ UniFi device / 300+ client support, 2.3 Gbps IPS routing, and selectable NVR storage.

store.ui.com

Additional 2.5GbE switch, the needed number (1-2), (USB-C power)

Switch Flex Mini 2.5G - Ubiquiti Store

Compact, 5-port 2.5G switch that can be powered with PoE or a USB-C adapter.

store.ui.com

Access Point, the needed number (3-4), omnidirectional, desk/wall or indoor/outdoor, (PoE power, injector included)

Access Point U6 Mesh - Ubiquiti Store

Sleek, indoor/outdoor WiFi 6 AP with 6 spatial streams designed for mesh applications.

store.ui.com

With the system above you don't need any expensive PoE switches and the APs are universal. You can place one outdoors. Desktop, wall and pole mounting hardware as well as PoE injector are all included. Super small size devices with Apple-like quality, all Qualcomm hardware, high wife acceptance factor, can be made almost invisible. The APs have RGB light to remind you of Asus ROG times...

 

[Tech9]

I am limited in my networking skills

Ubiquiti recently made Network Application (the GUI of UniFi OS) quite user friendly. They are targeting the consumer market very aggressively. The menus are very well structured, built-in help is available, documentation online is available, online videos are available, Ubiquiti Community forum is quite strong. I think setting up UniFi system is actually easier than Asus router with Asuswrt-Merlin.

Two YouTube channels with good networking content, including UniFi:

Crosstalk Solutions

Want to improve your networking skills? Easy to follow tutorials for best practice computer networking, WiFi, Voice over IP (VoIP), and related technologies! Chris Sherwood with Crosstalk Solutions has been providing educational and entertaining videos on YouTube for 8+ years - we have a HUGE...

www.youtube.com

Lawrence Systems

In-depth tutorials, discussions on network engineering, security, and technology solutions. Lawrence Systems offers a look at how we run our company, the products we use and solutions we provide for our clients. We discuss and create tutorials for firewalls, storage solutions, MSP tools...

www.youtube.com

One of the recent similar threads, the OP decided to go ahead with BE-class devices:

MESH replacement options - XenWifi/Unifi/etc

Hi all, this might overlap with some of the other threads, but looking for a higher-level opinion on an upgrade to my current network. Current State: I'm currently running an AC86U with two AC68Us as MESH nodes, all running Asus-Merlin. The AC86U is the main router and sits in the lounge...

www.snbforums.com

UniFi Design Center for network planning:

UniFi Design Center

Simulate a complete UniFi system with our powerful visualization and planning tool.

design.ui.com

I strongly recommend using this tool before purchasing UniFi APs. If the place is drawn with proper dimensions and wall materials the predicted Wi-Fi heat map will be very close to real life experience. May prevent costly wrong application hardware purchase mistakes.

 

[chrismsales]

Ubiquiti recently made Network Application (the GUI of UniFi OS) quite user friendly. They are targeting the consumer market very aggressively. The menus are very well structured, built-in help is available, documentation online is available, online videos are available, Ubiquiti Community forum is quite strong. I think setting up UniFi system is actually easier than Asus router with Asuswrt-Merlin.

Two YouTube channels with good networking content, including UniFi:

Crosstalk Solutions

Want to improve your networking skills? Easy to follow tutorials for best practice computer networking, WiFi, Voice over IP (VoIP), and related technologies! Chris Sherwood with Crosstalk Solutions has been providing educational and entertaining videos on YouTube for 8+ years - we have a HUGE...

www.youtube.com

Lawrence Systems

In-depth tutorials, discussions on network engineering, security, and technology solutions. Lawrence Systems offers a look at how we run our company, the products we use and solutions we provide for our clients. We discuss and create tutorials for firewalls, storage solutions, MSP tools...

www.youtube.com

One of the recent similar threads, the OP decided to go ahead with BE-class devices:

MESH replacement options - XenWifi/Unifi/etc

Hi all, this might overlap with some of the other threads, but looking for a higher-level opinion on an upgrade to my current network. Current State: I'm currently running an AC86U with two AC68Us as MESH nodes, all running Asus-Merlin. The AC86U is the main router and sits in the lounge...

www.snbforums.com

UniFi Design Center for network planning:

UniFi Design Center

Simulate a complete UniFi system with our powerful visualization and planning tool.

design.ui.com

I strongly recommend using this tool before purchasing UniFi APs. If the place is drawn with proper dimensions and wall materials the predicted Wi-Fi heat map will be very close to real life experience. May prevent costly wrong application hardware purchase mistakes.

Thank you for all the detailed explanation! I will check the sites out in looks like I have plenty of videos to watch as well!

Thanks again and have a great holiday weekend.

 

[JoeHz]

I've updated my Asus routers every 2 to 3 years due to random 5GHz issues so I just feel like I'm constantly throwing money away. I'm also just growing tired of always needing to reboot everything once or twice a week to keep things running smoothly.

One of the things I found was that I was demanding a bit too much in the way of features of my old RT-AC86U for the amount of memory it had on board (it could do all of the things, just only for a while until someone's stray memory leak ate it all). So yeah, I found that problem too, but there was a built in fix (scheduled reboots). If I didn't set it to do that once a week, it invariably went nuts during my wife's Tuesday meeting sched.

 

[Tech9]

Well... your UDM-SE is kind of overkill now. UCG-Max is what most people will buy for home network.

 

[JoeHz]

Well... your UDM-SE is kind of overkill now. UCG-Max is what most people will buy for home network.

For most people, yes. When it comes to home networking, I have NEVER ever been most people. I was always pushing the limits of high end consumer gear to the point I ran Netware 3.12 in my apartment in the 90s. When we bought our home (still pre-wifi), the very first thing we did was have the cable guy come back on his own time to wire the house for cat-5. Hell, my HS science project was to write a device driver to network 6502 based Atari 800's over their joystick adapter ports.

Anyway -- I maintain that the only good thing about the pandemic was that it pushed WFH to commonality and now that market is *finally* being catered to: i.e. decent price-points for business class gateway routers. I'm no longer worried a customer is going to ask me what brand of equipment I use and ask me to start coming to the site because they don't trust it, spec compliance be damned.

Also, trust me on this, rackmounted hardware options are a good way to keep your wife happy. Much like how the very small "Sunfire" and "Sunfire Jr." subwoofers became known by AV nerds as "The Marriage Saver" by virtue of them trading cabinet size for power supply input wattage.

 

[vibroverbus]

Well... your UDM-SE is kind of overkill now. UCG-Max is what most people will buy for home network.

Mostly Tech9 has said it all but stumbled on this thread today so, few extra cents of thoughts:

The one thing about the product line and ecosystem is that for any small site you usually have several config options that can all make sense depending on your needs and physical layout.
I am fully Unifi converted over last year and have done 4 sites now: 2 sites for my company & 2 personal residential sites. In most cases a variety of "Cloud Gateway" models can work but you can choose based on whatever your priorities & budget are. Pricing all-in, depending on what you choose, is surprisingly comparable to other (aka Asus) consumer solutions.

A lot of Unifi users who want 'headroom' choose UCG-Fiber instead of UCG-Max since the Fiber gives you one PoE port out of the box, AND, a whole host of other benefits (notably a newer/upgraded micro, 10GbE, fiber ports, can run all the other apps etc.) So for someone who doesn't have other PoE devices yet, doesn't have a lot of hardwired devices in general, and just wants to start with one AP and not need to buy a PoE injector, but have lots of headroom for expansion, its the way to go. Then in the future if you need to go more AP's and more PoE, just add a solid PoE switch hung off a 10G or 2.5G port on the Fiber and you're off to the races.

Max and Fiber are both solid choices. Express 7 can also have a place, if your needs are appropriate, and you are aware of some limitations/trade-offs (its on a separate firmware dev track so you don't get updates as fast or often as the "UCG" part numbers).

For a true tiny apartment with very little chance of future needs and a 'single box solution on a budget', UDR7 could be OK. But that said, I buy UX7s & basic Flex switches for those same use cases instead of UDR7 - as the Max, UX7, and UDR7 all use the same A53 micro it appears to get a little overloaded on the UDR7 having to do more switch/storage/wifi duty. It gets hot, the fan makes noise, reports of slower performance as you would expect etc.

Avoid the Ultra, not remotely worth the $70 savings, people tend to have complaints about them being slow and underpowered and express regrets at not spending a little more.

 

[Tech9]

Avoid the Ultra

I actually purchased 3x UCG-Ultra in purpose.

It's almost identical to UCG-Max hardware minus the 2.5GbE switch, Storage and Protect/Access/Talk/Connect related features I don't use. Works well on up to Gigabit ISP lines and runs cooler (6.2W vs 16.1W). UCG-Ultra can do Gigabit with IDS (ports/switch limited), ~500Mbps with QoS, ~500Mbps on WireGuard, ~150Mbps on OpenVPN. The same 3GB RAM, very similar quad-core A53 CPU, the UI is fast and fluid. UCG-Max performance with QoS/VPN is similar, has to have Hardware Acceleration enabled to do 2.5GbE.

I buy UX7s & basic Flex switches

Similar installation here. Simple and works surprisingly well.

 

[aex.perez]

Since you're on the AT&T 2Gb fiber service, you might want to investigate the BGW bypass using WAS-110 XGSPON ONU Stick SFP+ to see if it applies to you.

If you are running in PassThrough mode on the BGW620, the WAN Port on the GT-AX6000 should have a public IP address from AT&T's assigned pool. If so, you aren't double NAT'ed and mostly bypass any of the BGW620 features, just make sure you disable it's Firewall, WiFi and ActiveArmor. If you do not have a public IP address on the GT-AX600's WAN port, then you AREN'T running in pass through mode and ARE double NAT'ed.

The WAS-110 bypass is very popular with Ubiquiti users (a quick Google search will confirm, or on Youtube) but keep the BGW620 lying around, just in case you need to report an issue to AT&T beacuse they'll ask for it to diagnose the problem.

On the same path in terms at looking for what's next, though my setup has been for the most part, stable from a WiFi, Internet connectivity, AiMesh perspective (after lots of optimization/work). The hardware, not so much. Any serious I've had are related to that.

 

[mromero]

Mostly Tech9 has said it all but stumbled on this thread today so, few extra cents of thoughts:

The one thing about the product line and ecosystem is that for any small site you usually have several config options that can all make sense depending on your needs and physical layout.
I am fully Unifi converted over last year and have done 4 sites now: 2 sites for my company & 2 personal residential sites. In most cases a variety of "Cloud Gateway" models can work but you can choose based on whatever your priorities & budget are. Pricing all-in, depending on what you choose, is surprisingly comparable to other (aka Asus) consumer solutions.

A lot of Unifi users who want 'headroom' choose UCG-Fiber instead of UCG-Max since the Fiber gives you one PoE port out of the box, AND, a whole host of other benefits (notably a newer/upgraded micro, 10GbE, fiber ports, can run all the other apps etc.) So for someone who doesn't have other PoE devices yet, doesn't have a lot of hardwired devices in general, and just wants to start with one AP and not need to buy a PoE injector, but have lots of headroom for expansion, its the way to go. Then in the future if you need to go more AP's and more PoE, just add a solid PoE switch hung off a 10G or 2.5G port on the Fiber and you're off to the races.

Max and Fiber are both solid choices. Express 7 can also have a place, if your needs are appropriate, and you are aware of some limitations/trade-offs (its on a separate firmware dev track so you don't get updates as fast or often as the "UCG" part numbers).

For a true tiny apartment with very little chance of future needs and a 'single box solution on a budget', UDR7 could be OK. But that said, I buy UX7s & basic Flex switches for those same use cases instead of UDR7 - as the Max, UX7, and UDR7 all use the same A53 micro it appears to get a little overloaded on the UDR7 having to do more switch/storage/wifi duty. It gets hot, the fan makes noise, reports of slower performance as you would expect etc.

Avoid the Ultra, not remotely worth the $70 savings, people tend to have complaints about them being slow and underpowered and express regrets at not spending a little more.

 

[mromero]

Mostly Tech9 has said it all but stumbled on this thread today so, few extra cents of thoughts:

The one thing about the product line and ecosystem is that for any small site you usually have several config options that can all make sense depending on your needs and physical layout.
I am fully Unifi converted over last year and have done 4 sites now: 2 sites for my company & 2 personal residential sites. In most cases a variety of "Cloud Gateway" models can work but you can choose based on whatever your priorities & budget are. Pricing all-in, depending on what you choose, is surprisingly comparable to other (aka Asus) consumer solutions.

A lot of Unifi users who want 'headroom' choose UCG-Fiber instead of UCG-Max since the Fiber gives you one PoE port out of the box, AND, a whole host of other benefits (notably a newer/upgraded micro, 10GbE, fiber ports, can run all the other apps etc.) So for someone who doesn't have other PoE devices yet, doesn't have a lot of hardwired devices in general, and just wants to start with one AP and not need to buy a PoE injector, but have lots of headroom for expansion, its the way to go. Then in the future if you need to go more AP's and more PoE, just add a solid PoE switch hung off a 10G or 2.5G port on the Fiber and you're off to the races.

Max and Fiber are both solid choices. Express 7 can also have a place, if your needs are appropriate, and you are aware of some limitations/trade-offs (its on a separate firmware dev track so you don't get updates as fast or often as the "UCG" part numbers).

For a true tiny apartment with very little chance of future needs and a 'single box solution on a budget', UDR7 could be OK. But that said, I buy UX7s & basic Flex switches for those same use cases instead of UDR7 - as the Max, UX7, and UDR7 all use the same A53 micro it appears to get a little overloaded on the UDR7 having to do more switch/storage/wifi duty. It gets hot, the fan makes noise, reports of slower performance as you would expect etc.

Avoid the Ultra, not remotely worth the $70 savings, people tend to have complaints about them being slow and underpowered and express regrets at not spending a little more.

Chose the Ubiquity Cloud Gateway ULTRA after careful research as we planned our move away from Asus. Have no need for Storage and Protect, Access, Talk etc. features. The Ultra runs like greased lighting, and best of all, operates cool compared to the Max. Still run Pi-Holes on separate boxes because we can.

 

[vibroverbus]

Chose the Ubiquity Cloud Gateway ULTRA after careful research as we planned our move away from Asus. Have no need for Storage and Protect, Access, Talk etc. features. The Ultra runs like greased lighting, and best of all, operates cool compared to the Max. Still run Pi-Holes on separate boxes because we can.

My Max doesn't run very hot at all so you may have bad info there, informally it seems to be just about the same as my Fiber, despite an older slower micro. Admittedly its fairly light traffic/loading but thats true of both sites "most of the time". I have IPS and Traffic Logging on, but no AdBlocking.

I'm not running any of the other Unifi apps on any sites either. We may or may not try "Protect" (what a dumb name for "Cameras and NVR" honestly) at some point for the business sites, and at that time we'll have to revisit if the UX7's can really handle the load, but so far they are good. As mentioned above only downside of those has been the Express firmware dev channel clearly gets back-burnered so when I get excited about a new feature that shows up on the Fiber & Max right away, I usually have a long wait for it to hit the UX7. "All Flow Traffic Logging" still hasn't made it - maybe never as I suspect they are afraid of CPU / memory overload on the "Wifi Integrated" models? That IS a little annoying when trouble shooting connection issues to not be able to see live logging without firing up packet capture gnarly nerdly stuff.

What DOES run hot AF are the U7 APs. That is all supposed to be "OK as designed", but man they do put out some BTU's. I have a U7 Pro XG in an enclosed closet and I mounted it on a plate spaced down off the ceiling by a 1/2" or so - and that plate gets pretty hot, whereas I have an old legacy AC Pro AP I was given for free, and that thing barely gets warm at all.

 

[Tech9]

what a dumb name for "Cameras and NVR" honestly

Different open/close, motion, light, temperature, humidity, etc. sensors as well as alarm sirens are also part of Protect.

What DOES run hot AF are the U7 APs

I have seven U6-Mesh APs already and they also run >50C due to compact size and IPX5 rating. No side effects so far.

 

[New2This]

Switching over to Unifi also , have been planning on the switch for weeks just wasn't sure what to get or really needed. Thanks @Tech9

 

[Tech9]

Just make sure you get the right hardware for your application.