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NETGEAR "Stealthily" Releases the Nighthawk X6S R7960P

Discussion in 'NETGEAR AC Wireless' started by kc6108, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. e38BimmerFN

    e38BimmerFN Very Senior Member

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    Streamboost by Qualcomm is horrendous IMO. QC really did a bad number with D-Links DGL-5500 years ago. Had such high hopes for the follow on DGL router since the DGL-4500 was a great router for gaming. What a mess the 5500 was. They never got it working well. QC dropped the ball big time for D-Link. Not a FAN of QC anymore. :mad:

    Glad that NG is using something different. Sounds like TrendMicro is working well then.

    Seems that NG always implements basic QoS at first then finally puts out more advanced features. Hopefully the RAX will get the same implementation as the R9000. o_O

     
  2. kc6108

    kc6108 Regular Contributor

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    Agreed. I think Netgear either starts out with no QoS at all (i.e. R9000) or something basic to ensure they get to add it to the features list.
    I'm torn on this one. TM/R9000 has the best Dynamic QoS implementation I've ever used, but I've heard great things about sqm-scripts, qos-scripts, fq_codel, etc. Supposedly they are the best in the business.

    What I'm noticing with TM is that Netgear at least has the option to use some of their knobs (i.e. device/application type recognition as in Android vs iPhone vs Smart TV, etc, etc). Also, their signatures to identify device/application types are updated regularly.

    OTOH, I'm sure OpenWrt's latest QoS/SQM/AQM flavors do something very similar... and are better at it.

    The best thing of all is that Netgear just has to implement these technologies. A simple, but accurate, speedtest and routine updates (from TM or Git) are all that's really necessary to configure and keep them working in tiptop shape.

    Unfortunately, this post is full of MY opinions... I am far from a Networking/QoS expert. To be quite honest, I know just enough to be dangerous, lol!

    Take care, -kc6108
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
    kamoj likes this.
  3. e38BimmerFN

    e38BimmerFN Very Senior Member

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    Ya heard that OpenWRTs flavours are the best. Seen more posts about FQ_Codel and good things.

    Enjoy. ;)
     
  4. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Very Senior Member

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    Looking right at the X6S on Amazon for 249. Again not all that stealthy of a release.
     
  5. kc6108

    kc6108 Regular Contributor

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    I can't find the new X6S (R7960P) on Amazon. I did see the old X6S (R8000P) is there for $249.
     
  6. Internet Man

    Internet Man Senior Member

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    Netgear made software changes to the R8000P model (AC4000) which is marketed as the Nighthawk X6S and released it with the model number R7960P (AC3600) under the same marketing name of X6S for sale exclusively at Costco. They had done this previously for the R7900P model (AC3000) which was also marketed as the Nighthawk X6S.

    They probably feel that the AC3000 was too much of a nerf from the AC4000 and they might even hope to trick some people into upgrading from the R7900P to the R7960P.

    https://wikidevi.com/wiki/List_of_Costco_Exclusive_Wireless_Devices
     
  7. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Very Senior Member

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    The hardware platform is the same. “Stealthy” is not accurate.

    Lots of this kind of thing at Costco for all kinds of products like bluray players.

    Not getting one but they’ve easily found and no ninja skills required to obtain one.
     
  8. e38BimmerFN

    e38BimmerFN Very Senior Member

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    I think what KC meant by "stealthy" was that the R7960P didn't get much fan fair party for it's announcement release like the XR or RAX routers do.
     
  9. ClockerXP

    ClockerXP New Around Here

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    I have one of thes R7960P routers. I was a beta tester for it in the winter. I would love to use it again but I need all the features I have in the Merlin firmware with my Asus RT-AC68U. Any idea if this router may get some Merlin love? Specifically I need good OpenVPN support.
     
  10. L&LD

    L&LD Part of the Furniture

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    Asus software on Netgear hardware is breaching the terms of use. ;)
     
  11. ClockerXP

    ClockerXP New Around Here

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    Anyone try the koolshare Merlin firmware before? Or maybe this?

    [link removed. -rm]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2019
  12. RMerlin

    RMerlin Super Moderator

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    avtella and Voxel like this.
  13. ClockerXP

    ClockerXP New Around Here

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    Thanks for the heads up Merlin. Noted!!
     
  14. helloguys

    helloguys New Around Here

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    How is this R7960P compared with R7800 (which used to be the "#1" on SNB) and R8000P (which was basically the same model publicly available outside Costco)? As far as wireless range is concerned?
     
  15. SwampKracker

    SwampKracker Regular Contributor

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    Just want to comment this thread has become one of the most interesting and informative for answering the question of "What does it take to have all the gamers in my house at the same time?" The answer from Netgear to purchase a business grade firewall and a business grade switch for gaming using UPnP is just bizarre. Why would their firewall for the office even have UPnP support?

    Thanks, kc6108, for sharing your experience.
     
  16. kc6108

    kc6108 Regular Contributor

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    Unlike Netgear's consumer routers, UPnP is disabled by default on their business class routers. It had to be specifically enabled on this router.

    I believe @e38BimmerFN has it correct that switching the 'NAT Filtering' option to 'Open' (ultimately enabling Full Cone NAT) is the key to your "What does it take to have all the gamers in my house at the same time?" question. I think the reason why it's not an issue in my network is due to the addition of the layer 3 routing switch.
     
    e38BimmerFN likes this.
  17. e38BimmerFN

    e38BimmerFN Very Senior Member

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    The R7960P is just as good if not better for wireless than the R7800. The R7960P is a tri band router where the R7800 is only dual band.

     
  18. e38BimmerFN

    e38BimmerFN Very Senior Member

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    For multi gaming environments, especially online multi player environments, users can review this and make there decisions and configuration changes where needed:
    https://badmodems.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21&sid=e422b46907ca62b52ddc7f8f280f4f59

    Most home users don't have a need for managed L2/3 switches. So most of the time getting multiple game consoles online at the same time depends ON the router and ON what kind of NAT the routers use and support. Asus and NetGear seem to have the best flexibility in this area. This comes at a disappointment for other router Mfrs that do not provide this flexibility anymore or currently. :oops:
     
  19. kc6108

    kc6108 Regular Contributor

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    @e38BimmerFN

    Here are the results for the NAT Analyzer test @ http://nattest.net.in.tum.de using an RAX120 and its default setting for NAT Filtering (= 'Secured'). I ran this test on a router I setup for a friend. I'll rerun the test with it set to 'Open' if ever I get the opportunity.

    Here are the results of the test:

    UPnP Test (?): found: RAX120 (Gateway)
    UPnP Port mapping works



    STUN Test (?): Address Restricted Cone NAT



    UDP Binding Test (?): Endpoint independent binding, port prediction is easy
    TCP Binding Test: Endpoint independent binding, port prediction is easy



    UDP Mapping Test (?): your external IP address was different from your local one (NAT).
    Your external source ports were preserved on every connection.
    TCP Mapping Test: your external IP address was different from your local one (NAT)
    Your external source ports were preserved on every connection.



    SIP ALG (?): The initial SIP INVITE packet has been modified.
    Most probably, your NAT implements a SIP-ALG
    FTP ALG:
    The initial FTP PORT command has been modified.
    Most probably, your NAT implements a FTP-ALG



    UDP Hole Punching (?): High TTL Test was not successful
    Low TTL Test was successful
    Silent Test was not successful
    TCP Hole Punching:
    High TTL Test was not successful
    Low TTL Test was not successful



    UDP Timeout (?): Your UDP timeout is approx. 60 seconds
    Your timeout is greater than 60 seconds. There should be no problems.
     
    e38BimmerFN likes this.
  20. e38BimmerFN

    e38BimmerFN Very Senior Member

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    @kc6108
    Please if you can test with with NAT Filter set to OPEN. Would be great to find out. :)
    I can add this model router to that list of routers that support Full Cone NAT for gamers if it tests correctly. ;)

    Please let me know results when you can. Thank you.