NETGEAR WNDR4000 N750 Wireless Dual Band Gigabit Router Reviewed

[njweb]

Did you check for conflicting software?
That (or hardware which you already checked to some extent by replacing adapters) is frequently the root cause of issues that only affect a small percentage of users.

If the issue really were reproducible on DIFFERENT setups (includes not just hardware, but OS, software running on the PC in question, patches, even interference from other wireless devices nearby etc.) then everyone who bought an E4200 would be returning theirs. ;-)

Re. your comment, this thread is not about the E4200": With all due respect, you made this thread about the E4200 as well by repeatedly putting it down in multiple forums.

This presents a VERY unfair picture of the E4200 to all those who have not tried it and might be inclined to take everything you said at face value and assume every E4200 is "crappy" when that it far from the case.
The overwhelming majority of reviewers at Best Buy (the only store carrying them, other than Cisco themselves) are happy.
We all know that if someone has a problem with a product they will be inclined to post a bad review to either warn others, to vent or in the hopes that the manufacturer might see it, whereas many people who are happy like myself have not even posted reviews yet (I do intend to), yet the E4200. Despite that the E4200 gets great reviews both by home users and online sites like this and PC Magazine, among others.

I believe your problems are real, but they are obviously only reproducible on certain setups or everyone would be experiencing the issues.
Technology is a very complex beast and there are a multitude of different factors that can affect a network in terms of performance and creating potential issues.

Anyway, I am happy you love your WNDR4000, but it is unfair to call a product "crappy" just because it did not work for your setup.

Tim put the router through its paces and PC Magazine also loved it and said they did not have a single issue in 48 or 96 hours of heavy usage.

I am genuinely happy for you, but as a very satisfied E4200 owner (I have owned multiple wireless routers from Netgear, Belkin (two), Motorola and Siemens over the years and the E4200 is by far the best), I felt compelled to speak up for it given that this thread will be read by many prospective buyers.
Let them try both the E4200 and the WNDR4000 and judge for themselves.
As someone on the Netgear forums said, the two perform very similarly for him which is understandable given that the two have identical Broadcom wireless radio chips.

 

[TheBrandon]

Did you check for conflicting software?
That (or hardware which you already checked to some extent by replacing adapters) is frequently the root cause of issues that only affect a small percentage of users.

If the issue really were reproducible on DIFFERENT setups (includes not just hardware, but OS, software running on the PC in question, patches, even interference from other wireless devices nearby etc.) then everyone who bought an E4200 would be returning theirs. ;-)

Re. your comment, this thread is not about the E4200": With all due respect, you made this thread about the E4200 as well by repeatedly putting it down in multiple forums.

This presents a VERY unfair picture of the E4200 to all those who have not tried it and might be inclined to take everything you said at face value and assume every E4200 is "crappy" when that it far from the case.
The overwhelming majority of reviewers at Best Buy (the only store carrying them, other than Cisco themselves) are happy.
We all know that if someone has a problem with a product they will be inclined to post a bad review to either warn others, to vent or in the hopes that the manufacturer might see it, whereas many people who are happy like myself have not even posted reviews yet (I do intend to), yet the E4200. Despite that the E4200 gets great reviews both by home users and online sites like this and PC Magazine, among others.

I believe your problems are real, but they are obviously only reproducible on certain setups or everyone would be experiencing the issues.
Technology is a very complex beast and there are a multitude of different factors that can affect a network in terms of performance and creating potential issues.

Anyway, I am happy you love your WNDR4000, but it is unfair to call a product "crappy" just because it did not work for your setup.

Tim put the router through its paces and PC Magazine also loved it and said they did not have a single issue in 48 or 96 hours of heavy usage.

I am genuinely happy for you, but as a very satisfied E4200 owner (I have owned multiple wireless routers from Netgear, Belkin (two), Motorola and Siemens over the years and the E4200 is by far the best), I felt compelled to speak up for it given that this thread will be read by many prospective buyers.
Let them try both the E4200 and the WNDR4000 and judge for themselves.
As someone on the Netgear forums said, the two perform very similarly for him which is understandable given that the two have identical Broadcom wireless radio chips.

To some extent you are right. I brought up the E4200. I work with commercial networking for a living so I am not interested in how users that may like their E4200 for 2 devices or whatever that have it solely for Johnny Six Pack task. You are exactly right, the issues may arise in a more complex setup. I gave the E4200 every single chance possible. I am not ruling out the possibility that I had 2 defective E4200s. Having said that I tested multiple routers and modem combinations. Only issue with combination EVERY time was when an E4200 was hooked up. I tested stock setting stock firmware, 1.1 stock firmware, both configured. I had contacted Linksys who agreed completely there was a issue, reached out to forum members in addition to testing everything in the chain at my house KNOWING not a single other device I have impacted this as well as knowing I do these things daily for a living in a very complex environment
(infrastructure across multiple states). All I have gotten for troubleshooting besides disbelief is people saying how wonderful the E4200 is. Which is fine so long as it works for them.

I am not sure how why you think I am being unfair regarding the E4200? I had two, it didn't work. I am not the only one out there. You are right though, it is totally possible someone may get a Netgear and break the chain and have some type of issue with their environment. I can guarantee most people are not looking for the same type of networking solution as I need. I can also guarantee these people wouldn't know if they were having issues short of complete disconnects because of those exact reasons.

Look at it like this, you buy a stock GTR. Its putting down 435 hp and 435 lbs/trq. You get a stage 1 tune. Now the EXACT same vehicle is putting down 485 hp 466 lbs/trq although it has the exact same internals. The Netgear has a beefed up processor as well as having much better range then I experienced with my E4200 if we are comparing. The E4200 MSRP is more. As long as they do perform similar it is a no brainer unless aesthetics is a factor and that is subjective.

I don't care what people buy. Mine is performing excellently. Next few months I would not rule out something coming out that is better. What I find annoying is blindly defending a product because you purchased it. I am a believer on the N750 but when the next greatest thing comes out I will be all aboard once I have the chance to physically test it and compare... first hand.

 

[jalyst]

Hmm, guess I'm a bit "out of the loop"
I thought the next major release was to be the 3800.
So this is much better? How?
I've read through this thread but no indication there.

Thanks.

 

[Mutabor]

Hi,
could you guys in the US, who already own WNDR4000, check the power adapter rating? Is it rated 120-220V or 120V only?

I live in Singapore (we use 220v here) and planning to purchase the router from the US, so this is kinda important to me.

Thanks

 

[NetworkGenie]

Hmm, guess I'm a bit "out of the loop"
I thought the next major release was to be the 3800.
So this is much better? How?
I've read through this thread but no indication there.

Thanks.

The WNDR4000 is currently the fastest NETGEAR Wireless Router, N750 (300 + 450).

The WNDR3800 - Premium Edition, has a few Advanced features that the WNDR4000 does not; such as, Clear Channel Selector, ReadySHARE Remote, Desktop NETGEAR Genie, and ReadySHARE Printer.

So is you're looking for Maximum Performance and not necessarily the Advanced Features, then the WNDR4000 would be a good fit.

 

[jalyst]

The WNDR4000 is currently the fastest NETGEAR Wireless Router, N750 (300 + 450).

The WNDR3800 - Premium Edition, has a few Advanced features that the WNDR4000 does not; such as, Clear Channel Selector, ReadySHARE Remote, Desktop NETGEAR Genie, and ReadySHARE Printer.

So is you're looking for Maximum Performance and not necessarily the Advanced Features, then the WNDR4000 would be a good fit.

Odd that they've chosen that sort of product line-up (i.e. some advanced config features not in their top-end device)*, but thanks for clarifying what I suspected.

*they sound a bit like gimmicks anyway, that I wouldn't really care about LT with the advent of 3rd party fw support.

 

[indigo196]

I just returned a WNDR4000 after three days of use.

The issue I had was repeated drops of clients on the 2.4Ghz range. This included an X41, Toshiba and a Samsung TV. If I waited 5-10 minutes or rebooted the router the devices could connects again. Unfortunately, I was unwilling to live with that issue and nervous about trying a second unit.

The same drops do not happen with the DIR-655 I was replacing.

 

[computerpro3]

Check this out:

My secret is using an Intel 6300N in a mini pci express to full pci express adapter. I'm also using 3 5DB gain antennas.

The incredible thing is that the router is two rooms away through three or four walls. About 40ft distance as the crow flies, much more if you take the "walking path" through the hallways.

 

[computerpro3]

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3128/netgeart.png

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7154/13981569.png

Averaging over 20 MegaBYTES per second. Wifi adapter is Intel 6300 with 3 Air802 5db antennas. The router is three rooms away from my desktop, about forty foot distance as the crow flies. Three walls are in between. I live in an apartment with ten+ other 2.4ghz networks in the area.

My guess is that this is a router that shines with a good wifi adapter and good antennas, and the laptop card that SNB uses isn't good enough to show this kind of throughput.

 

[njweb]

The E4200 was tested with the SAME wireless card

Different adapters can indeed make a big difference, but I would not call that a flawed review.

What matters to me is that the E4200 was tested with the same wireless card as the WNDR4000.
We can gauge therefore relative (not absolute) performance.
Then, once you have picked your router, you can pair it with the wireless adapter that performs the best.

On 2.4 GHz the E4200 was much better in difficult locations E and F than the WNDR4000. On 5 GHz it was a toss up between the two overall.

The E4200 also has much higher WLAN to LAN throughput and a higher maximum number of connections for those who care.
My priority is wireless performance.

 

[tjawi]

Hi Brandon,
I saw ur posting about WNDR4000, n you seems familiar with "complex networking issue" as well as pretty wise considering the price/performance issue.

Have you ever tried TP-Link WR1043N?

It is supposed to be a high performance equipment, and it is very cheap because TP-Link is a real manufacturer.

What do you think?

 

[thiggins]

I used the Intel 5300 card that has been used for all other wireless reviews. So it's a fair comparative test.

Our tests are aimed at fairness and consistency, not necessarily at showing the highest performance. For example, many manfs base their speed claims on UDP based tests to goose throughput a little higher. Or quote numbers based on multiple streams.

The review is "flawed" to the extent that it did not test three-stream performance. I will do that when the industry gets serious about making three stream adapters available for applications other than embedded notebooks.

But it does show that claims of improved performance using two-stream clients with three-stream router / AP don't appear to be true.

 

[thiggins]

Hi,
could you guys in the US, who already own WNDR4000, check the power adapter rating? Is it rated 120-220V or 120V only?

100 - 240 V, 50 / 60 Hz.

All consumer networking gear I see has the same "universal" voltage rating. Just need an adapter for the plug prongs.

 

[computerpro3]

I used the Intel 5300 card that has been used for all other wireless reviews. So it's a fair comparative test.

Our tests are aimed at fairness and consistency, not necessarily at showing the highest performance. For example, many manfs base their speed claims on UDP based tests to goose throughput a little higher. Or quote numbers based on multiple streams.

The review is "flawed" to the extent that it did not test three-stream performance. I will do that when the industry gets serious about making three stream adapters available for applications other than embedded notebooks.

But it does show that claims of improved performance using two-stream clients with three-stream router / AP don't appear to be true.

While I understand this to a certain extent, if performance isn't the point of a wireless router, what's the point in having the famed SNB charts? Testing the WNDR4000 vs the E4200 with two stream adapters is equivalent to comparing a Ferrari F458 Italia and Lamborghini Aventador with half of the cylinders shut off.

Also, I don't think anyone expected significant performance increases from the WNDR3700 for two stream adapters when indeed 95% of the point of Netgear coming out with the new model was to utilize three stream connections.

I suppose the review wasn't flawed, but was rather incomplete and somewhat missed the point of the product.

Finally, while I agree with you that the industry hasn't done much with three stream adapters for desktops yet, that doesn't change the fact that they exist. How about an article about my combo - the Intel 6300, pci-e adapter, and three antennas? $60-70 total depending on antennas and you have yourself a class leading desktop solution.

The bottom line is that the general computing audience isn't going to buy the WNDR4000 or E4200 anyway. Those that do will be interested in exploiting it's maximum performance. It would be nice to know which is truly faster when fully utilized.

That being said, the article was well written as usual and had plenty of great information. I just wish that the primary new feature was tested.

 

[thiggins]

While I understand this to a certain extent, if performance isn't the point of a wireless router, what's the point in having the famed SNB charts? Testing the WNDR4000 vs the E4200 with two stream adapters is equivalent to comparing a Ferrari F458 Italia and Lamborghini Aventador with half of the cylinders shut off.

The point is to have a good and fair comparative test of products.

When I first started wireless testing, I "paired" routers and adapters. But the changing adapter introduced a second variable that interfered with fair comparison.

I chose the Intel 5300 because it has good performance and, because Intel doesn't make AP / router chipsets, would not bias results toward any manufacturer's product.

Also, I don't think anyone expected significant performance increases from the WNDR3700 for two stream adapters when indeed 95% of the point of Netgear coming out with the new model was to utilize three stream connections.

I'd argue that the main reason NETGEAR created the WNDR4000 was to put a bigger number on the box for people who pay attention to those numbers.

Finally, while I agree with you that the industry hasn't done much with three stream adapters for desktops yet, that doesn't change the fact that they exist. How about an article about my combo - the Intel 6300, pci-e adapter, and three antennas? $60-70 total depending on antennas and you have yourself a class leading desktop solution.

Your combo doesn't suit for testing that requires moving the client from place to place. And since it isn't an off-the-shelf product, it would be subject to the same objections I got about my initial three stream testing with a jury-rigged third antenna.

The bottom line is that the general computing audience isn't going to buy the WNDR4000 or E4200 anyway. Those that do will be interested in exploiting it's maximum performance. It would be nice to know which is truly faster when fully utilized.

I disagree. People buy these high-end routers all the time, in hopes that they'll finally find one that will let them stream perfect 1080p video.

 

[computerpro3]

Your objections about the state of the industry and even Netgear simply increasing the product number may be true, but the following is as well:

You don't have to upgrade your adapter to test three stream. You would have to upgrade your laptop to one that has three antennas, which may be cost prohibitive. That being said, I feel it would be in the best interest of SNB to do so - when 802.11g came out, you upgraded your adapter, correct? Why is three stream wireless different? This is a serious performance increase - I am doubling your highest recorded two stream throughput.

The bottom line is this: I'm getting real world sustained throughput of 176 megabits per second. Don't you think this is something your readers would want to know is possible for their small network?

 

[thiggins]

Already did that when the manufacturer provided a complete solution. I haven't seen much

I am investigating the change. Got any tips for finding notebooks that support three-stream N?

 

[computerpro3]

I believe some of the Lenovo notebooks do, depending on configuration. I'll do some more research. I have a T400 that came with a 5300 that I can test at some point this week.

 

[computerpro3]

I just popped open my T400 to install a 6300 and discovered that it does indeed have three antennas. When my new SSD comes in I will do some speed tests vs. my desktop.

Are there any good free (or cheap) wireless speed testing suites so I can keep things consistent?

 

[thiggins]

That's good to know. Dell info is useless. I have a brochure from June 2010 that D-Link put together that is the only thing I've seen on the 'net that provides information on laptops that have 5300 or 6300 adapters.

I hope that means they also have three antennas!

I'll attach it for others to use.

Check this article for some free / inexpensive throughput test programs.
Drag and drop of a large folder also works. The main thing is to use a consistent measure.