Powerline died - should I replace it with a wireless router link?

[mrxf]

First, a little bit of background on how my current setup looks like:

• Internet through cable modem in the living room, 250 Mbps and unlikely to be upgraded to more than 500
• This modem is plugged into a powerline adapter (TP Link AV1300) which delivers the signal to the storage cupboard
• In the storage room, I have a Netgear R8000 router. To the back of this router, there is a bunch of wired ethernet-only devices (microserver, nas, raspberry pi and voip gateway)
• The storage room is separated from the living room by a simple plaster wall and a wooden door. The wifi works through it reasonably well.
• It is not possible to run a dedicated ethernet cable from the modem to the storage room (not my place)
• no coaxial cable available either
• aside from that there are about 10-15 wifi clients

The powerline adapter just died and I need to replace it with something else and I'm considering my options. I was thinking about:

• buying a new AX router, plugging it directly after a modem and using that for wireless access. Then converting existing R8000 to act as a wireless client and deliver the signal to NAS and other ethernet-based devices. I know it won't be ideal, but it just needs to beat or match powerline adapters which max out at 130 Mbps. If I can get more, great.
• buying a powerline adapter from another vendor (i.e. devolo magic 2)
• considered MikroTik Wireless Wire, but it's a little bit above my budget and I am not sure if it's a good idea indoors anyway
• sell the Netgear R8000 and invest in two cheaper AX routers that would form a mesh (i.e. AiMesh)

The budget is around 150 USD / GBP / EUR but can stretch it a little bit if needed.

Do you think any of those options are sensible? What would you do in such a case?

 

[tgl]

That sounds pretty open-and-shut to me: replace the powerline gear with new. Wifi bandwidth is precious, don't waste it on situations where you can reasonably use something else. The alternative you're considering moves all the traffic for the NAS etc. onto the airwaves, which will bog things down for all your necessarily-wireless clients.

FWIW, I recently bought AV2000 units (TP-Link TL-PA9020P-KIT, pair costs about USD95 on Amazon) and have been quite happy. I see transfer rates around 470Mbps, average ping RTT about 3.3ms with worst case about 40ms, 0.001% ping drop rate, on a pretty ancient/crappy physical circuit. Not as good as an ethernet cable for sure, but that's entirely acceptable for the devices I'm connecting to, and it keeps load off my wifi channels.

 

[mrxf]

FWIW, I recently bought AV2000 units (TP-Link TL-PA9020P-KIT, pair costs about USD95 on Amazon) and have been quite happy. I see transfer rates around 470Mbps, average ping RTT about 3.3ms with worst case about 40ms, 0.001% ping drop rate, on a pretty ancient/crappy physical circuit

Yeah, I kind of lost trust in TP-Link - it's the 2nd pair that has failed now, but I guess it's good enough for the price. Sadly mine provided only 130 Mbps and that's just in next room over the relatively new (5 years) wiring. Thanks for your input though - the AV2000 are cheap enough to give it a go, so I have ordered a pair and will see if they are any better than AV1300

 

[dev_null]

...on a pretty ancient/crappy physical circuit. Not as good as an ethernet cable for sure, but that's entirely acceptable for the devices I'm connecting to, and it keeps load off my wifi channels.

Sadly mine provided only 130 Mbps and that's just in next room over the relatively new (5 years) wiring. Thanks for your input though - the AV2000 are cheap enough to give it a go, so I have ordered a pair and will see if they are any better than AV1300

Newer construction is likely to have different rooms on different circuits, which is a killer for powerline connections. The newest builds may even have AFCI circuits which may further degrade connectivity. So "old, crappy" may actually be better for powerline, particularly if both ends are on the same circuit.

@mrxf: if the area you're in is carpeted, you might consider getting a flat Ethernet cable and tucking it under the baseboard around the perimeter of the room and into the area where your other equipment is located. I'm renting a place now where we have a 100 ft distance (and different floors) between main router and mesh node and a flat cable between them and it all works perfectly well, with no permanent modifications to the townhouse itself.

 

[mrxf]

Newer construction is likely to have different rooms on different circuits, which is a killer for powerline connections. The newest builds may even have AFCI circuits which may further degrade connectivity. So "old, crappy" may actually be better for powerline, particularly if both ends are on the same circuit.

I think it's UK standard RCD circuit here, but per-room circuits might explain poor performance.

@mrxf: if the area you're in is carpeted, you might consider getting a flat Ethernet cable and tucking it under the baseboard around the perimeter of the room and into the area where your other equipment is located. I'm renting a place now where we have a 100 ft distance (and different floors) between main router and mesh node and a flat cable between them and it all works perfectly well, with no permanent modifications to the townhouse itself.

Sadly it's all hardwood floors, but that is not a biggest part of the problem - I could just run the cable along the skirting boards. The bigger issue is that the storage cupboard is pretty much sealed - I won't be able to close the door if I pass any cable through - tested this with a flat USB cable which presumably is even thinner than ethernet one.

 

[Crimliar]

Here in the UK if the property is reasonably new then it's a requirement that the circuits on the consumer unit are labelled. Generally, we get 1 power ring circuit per floor, 1 lighting ring circuit per floor, and individual circuits just for high draw (cookers, boilers, PV, and EV) devices and devices such as alarms that you don't want to be easily trippable. If the storage cupboard was originally to hold a high-power device it may be on it's own circuit possibly with it's own mini-consumer unit or control box, but again these should all be clearly labelled. If the storage cupboard is on the same circuit as the living room and was only getting 200-300 Mbps over a TP-Link AV1300 connection, then there may be a wiring or equipment issue somewhere Though that particular powerline device does has a bit of a reputation for failing (just keep the receipt and be prepared to complain). I'd try your AV2000s, the wireless wire though at 60GHz might even struggle to get through the door! If the AV2000s don't work then the Devolo GHn (Magic) units work pretty well from what I've seen.
*Oh, and if you have Sky Q you are doomed!

 

[mrxf]

Here in the UK if the property is reasonably new then it's a requirement that the circuits on the consumer unit are labelled. Generally, we get 1 power ring circuit per floor, 1 lighting ring circuit per floor, and individual circuits just for high draw (cookers, boilers, PV, and EV) devices and devices such as alarms that you don't want to be easily trippable. If the storage cupboard was originally to hold a high-power device it may be on it's own circuit possibly with it's own mini-consumer unit or control box, but again these should all be clearly labelled. If the storage cupboard is on the same circuit as the living room and was only getting 200-300 Mbps over a TP-Link AV1300 connection, then there may be a wiring or equipment issue somewhere

The circuit breakers are clearly labelled:

both sides of the powerline adapters are connected behind the same circuit breaker (labelled just 'Sockets'). I wonder if there may be some bad connection on one of the sockets.

Though that particular powerline device does has a bit of a reputation for failing (just keep the receipt and be prepared to complain). I'd try your AV2000s, the wireless wire though at 60GHz might even struggle to get through the door! If the AV2000s don't work then the Devolo GHn (Magic) units work pretty well from what I've seen.
*Oh, and if you have Sky Q you are doomed!

Yeah, once the AV2000s arrive I will do some further testing - maybe it's some other device that's causing interference and slowing things down.

 

[Crimliar]

I think it's going to be a case of suck it and see! At least with the property type you should be getting an electrical inspection every few years.
I'd probably be looking to put the router next to the modem and create a pure wireless bridge to a second device in the cupboard that you can hang the wired devices off.

 

[L&LD]

An RT-AX68U or an RT-AX86U or a GT-AX6000 (the latter if you want to keep this setup for the longest service with the most features and support at the least cost today) is what I would recommend. If you can use the R8000 in Media Bridge mode (for your wired-only devices).

I would not recommend trying PLAs again (waste of money and too variable performance even when they work).

The above change to your network will greatly increase its capacity and will more fully utilize your ISP's paid-for speeds too.

 

[mrxf]

An RT-AX68U or an RT-AX86U or a GT-AX6000

All of these are way out of budget for now but definitely being considered - I just wasn't too convinced if Wifi 6 is going to be that much faster (over wifi 5) in my specific case. I will still be on the lookout for any good deals (RT-AX68U costs £345, RT-AX86U £210 and GT-AX6000 around £270) but wondered if anyone did similar upgrade and if it was worth it?

 

[L&LD]

AX class routers are at a different level than old AC class routers (particularly the recommended ones).

See the link below to see how a single RT-AX68U outperformed 2x RT-AC86Us (which back then, were the epitome of AC class routers with RMerlin firmware).

[ 386.4 alpha Build(s) ] Testing available build(s)

There are some odd regressions being discussed on the dnsmasq-discuss list from the PiHole guy (Dominik). https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015598.html https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015596.html I see Merlin is testing 2.86 out...

www.snbforums.com

The RT-AX86Us are in a different league again over the entry-level RT-AX68U.

Two AX86U Aimesh @2.5G Ethernet backhaul possible?

Just got me a second Rt-AX86U set up as AImesh node. Running Merlin 386_beta1 on both RT-AX86U. Under the Aimesh node management settings, under Connection Priority, there are three option: Automatic, 1G Wan Only, 2.5G Only (Ethernet Backhaul Mode enabled) I have tried both Automatic and 2.5G...

www.snbforums.com

Both the above have been surpassed (20% higher throughput over the RT-AX86U at the same distance) by the GT-AX6000 which has the most balanced hardware Asus offers today in a WiFi 6 router (specifically, 2x 2.5GbE ports, 1GB RAM, 2GHz, quad-core CPU, in a 4x4:4 setup).


The following links may help you decide if upgrading may be helpful.

WiFi 6 was not worth it for me ~ Journey of WiFi 6 AiMesh back to WiFi 5 UniFi ~

Who is this for? I've written this to share my personal experience to those who believe WiFi 6 is the best one can get right now. Yet, your experience is not quite as impressive as you expected. Perhaps, debating WiFi 5 vs. WiFi 6 because of different reviews. This is one technophilic person's...

www.snbforums.com

Best router on the market? current using R7800 and AC86U

Hi there, I'm using R7800 and AC86U for around 4 years, and thinking about changing them, the R7800 starts to lost signals. I checked the front-page and found that R7800 still rank the 1st, and forum said it not necessary mean the best on the market. So I'm just wondering that can...

www.snbforums.com

Of course, you should be prepared to fully test in your environment and with your client devices to decide if the improvements are worth it to you.

With the prices you posted, the RT-AX68U isn't worth considering at all.


Oh, one more link. The RT-AX86U was the first AX-class router I bought that showed significantly lower latency for my network usage, even over an RT-AX88U. Just to point out that not all AX class routers are equivalent.

RT-AX88U or RT-AX86U as main Router using AiMesh 2.0 with Merlin firmware.

Looking for some thoughts regarding what appliance is preferred when deploying a two-node AiMesh configuration. I will test and compare, but am curious as to what others may have experienced. As of today, both Nodes would be running Merlin 386.1_beta. Diversion, Skynet & Unbound. Available...

www.snbforums.com

 

[dev_null]

I think it's UK standard RCD circuit here, but per-room circuits might explain poor performance.


Sadly it's all hardwood floors, but that is not a biggest part of the problem - I could just run the cable along the skirting boards. The bigger issue is that the storage cupboard is pretty much sealed - I won't be able to close the door if I pass any cable through - tested this with a flat USB cable which presumably is even thinner than ethernet one.

Yeah, mine was a US-centric answer. But being on different circuits is still a performance liability.

WRT to the cabinet, could you not just file a tiny bit of the bottom of the door away and then touch up that area with a bit of paint or stain? My flat Ethernet are only about the thickness of 2 credit cards (2mm) and about 6.25mm wide. At least in the US, I doubt that would even be noticed.

 

[mrxf]

AX class routers are at a different level than old AC class routers (particularly the recommended ones).

See the link below to see how a single RT-AX68U outperformed 2x RT-AC86Us (which back then, were the epitome of AC class routers with RMerlin firmware).

WiFi 6 was not worth it for me ~ Journey of WiFi 6 AiMesh back to WiFi 5 UniFi ~

Who is this for? I've written this to share my personal experience to those who believe WiFi 6 is the best one can get right now. Yet, your experience is not quite as impressive as you expected. Perhaps, debating WiFi 5 vs. WiFi 6 because of different reviews. This is one technophilic person's...

www.snbforums.com

Best router on the market? current using R7800 and AC86U

Hi there, I'm using R7800 and AC86U for around 4 years, and thinking about changing them, the R7800 starts to lost signals. I checked the front-page and found that R7800 still rank the 1st, and forum said it not necessary mean the best on the market. So I'm just wondering that can...

www.snbforums.com

Of course, you should be prepared to fully test in your environment and with your client devices to decide if the improvements are worth it to you.

With the prices you posted, the RT-AX68U isn't worth considering at all.


Oh, one more link. The RT-AX86U was the first AX-class router I bought that showed significantly lower latency for my network usage, even over an RT-AX88U. Just to point out that not all AX class routers are equivalent.

RT-AX88U or RT-AX86U as main Router using AiMesh 2.0 with Merlin firmware.

Looking for some thoughts regarding what appliance is preferred when deploying a two-node AiMesh configuration. I will test and compare, but am curious as to what others may have experienced. As of today, both Nodes would be running Merlin 386.1_beta. Diversion, Skynet & Unbound. Available...

www.snbforums.com

Thank you so much for all the links - that's precisely what I was looking for - some real world usage tests rather than bunch of synthetic benchmarks done in a lab. While I am not doing much gaming, I do a lot of videoconferencing and the 'lower latency' argument may be something that tips the scale for future investment.

btw, which Asus employee thought it would be a good idea to name two vastly different products just by swapping 68 with 86 ?

 

[sfx2000]

FWIW, I recently bought AV2000 units (TP-Link TL-PA9020P-KIT, pair costs about USD95 on Amazon) and have been quite happy. I see transfer rates around 470Mbps, average ping RTT about 3.3ms with worst case about 40ms, 0.001% ping drop rate, on a pretty ancient/crappy physical circuit. Not as good as an ethernet cable for sure, but that's entirely acceptable for the devices I'm connecting to, and it keeps load off my wifi channels.

Did TP-Link ever fix their dropout issue where the link between the nodes goes down from time to time...

I've got a set of AV1200's, and they never fixed the issue on those... I've got some workarounds to minimize it, but does not eliminate the problem.

(their forums are full of complaints about this very issue - it's a big deal for those who have to use them to go from the demarc to their router, which is common in the UK)

 

[tgl]

Did TP-Link ever fix their dropout issue where the link between the nodes goes down from time to time...

Haven't seen any such issue with these particular units. I've kept an eye on their performance with a slow ping series (one ping every 6 seconds more or less). I do see an individual ping packet dropped every now and then, but no sustained outages.

 

[mrxf]

The AV2000s arrived last evening, but sadly they perform even worse than AV1300s did. According to the tplcutility, they have established connection at 1279 Mbps, the ethernet ports on both sides negotiated 1000Full, but the actual throughput measured with iperf is barely 80-90 Mbps. I have even tried unplugging everything in the house aside from router and my computer, testing with PLAs plugged into the same double socket, still couldn't get past 100Mbps.

I am going to try /dev/null's suggestion now and attempt to run flat ethernet cable underneath the door.

 

[Piotrek]

RT-AX68U costs £345, RT-AX86U £210 and GT-AX6000 around £270

Look at RT-AX58U - £97.99

RT-AX58U｜WiFi Routers｜ASUS United Kingdom

Our range of home, business and gaming wireless routers suit any application. And our extendable features ensure compatibility with another ASUS router to create a single, seamless WiFi network.

www.asus.com

I have multiple RT-AX56U installations for 300-600Mbps internet download speeds and they are sufficient (RT-AX58U will have similar performance).
If you want something better, look for the RT-AX86S - it was on sale for around $150. Don't buy old models over $200.