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Vote and Donate?


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    12
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HearToLearn

Occasional Visitor
About to make a $20 donation and had a thought. For monthly detonators (any amount), could there be like a voting system on next features? Feel it would bridge us (consumer) with you (dev) providing a better product and possibly more donations? Just an idea.

Edit: Finally managed to send the cash, still interested in the idea.
 
Last edited:
From the README (https://www.snbforums.com/threads/faq-read-me-first-before-posting-a-question.47153/):

Q: Will you add feature XYZ?
A: Chances are that no, since adding new features is a very low priority for this project. Just keeping code in sync with Asus has become nearly a full-time task for this project, and the increasing amount of closed source parts makes it increasingly harder to make significant changes to the firmware.

It's not a matter of money. Time is a considerable factor. Remember, this is a personal project that is worked on alongside a fulltime job!
 
About to make a $20 donation and had a thought. For monthly detonators (any amount), could there be like a voting system on next features? Feel it would bridge us (consumer) with you (dev) providing a better product and possibly more donations? Just an idea.

Edit: Finally managed to send the cash, still interested in the idea.


Absolutely NOT. "Donators" just become even more " entitled " and demanding.
Surest way possible to p*ss Merlin off and see the end of the project.
 
It's not a matter of money. Time is a considerable factor. Remember, this is a personal project that is worked on alongside a fulltime job!

I truly get that, I worry one day he'll have to balance family and work over the side-project and like so many other projects, die.

Absolutely NOT. "Donators" just become even more " entitled " and demanding.
Surest way possible to p*ss Merlin off and see the end of the project.

This isnt about money per-se, its more about engagement with the community while providing him with a little more flexibility. No vote should be set in stone and can be ignored.
 
"Hear to Learn" ......... perhaps you should read the forum and all the stickies.

Read >> https://www.asuswrt-merlin.net then do the same at GitHub.

Perhaps you'll see that there is already rather a lot of "engagement with the community " .

Apologies if I offending you, this wasnt indented.

I guess what Im trying to say is, for example: I'd like more control over the mesh network than meshAi provides, if pledges/donations met the mark, say $1000-3000, would it not justify the time and effort to work on it?
 
Apologies if I offending you, this wasnt indented.

I guess what Im trying to say is, for example: I'd like more control over the mesh network than meshAi provides, if pledges/donations met the mark, say $1000-3000, would it not justify the time and effort to work on it?

You could pledge a gazillion $ it won't change anything.

New features are VERY rare, and if mooted Merlin will often ask the community.

As to control of AiMesh ,not going to happen, it is closed source and Merlin has no way of touching it.

Q: Will you add feature XYZ?
A: Chances are that no, since adding new features is a very low priority for this project. Just keeping code in sync with Asus has become nearly a full-time task for this project, and the increasing amount of closed source parts makes it increasingly harder to make significant changes to the firmware.

That is why I said ... "READ" the forums and Merlin site , he tells you what will and won't happen.

You could always engage with ASUS direct and ask them for new features.
 
This isnt about money per-se, its more about engagement with the community while providing him with a little more flexibility. No vote should be set in stone and can be ignored.
Whenever I ask to vote on a feature for my scripts, then it is for something I am willing to implement anyway. I just ask for opinions, then I decide if it will be implemented.
I disregard feature requests that make no sense or when I have other reasons. My script, my decision. This is how this works for me.
 
Whenever I ask to vote on a feature for my scripts, then it is for something I am willing to implement anyway. I just ask for opinions, then I decide if it will be implemented.
I disregard feature requests that make no sense or when I have other reasons. My script, my decision. This is how this works for me.

Totally agree, and firstly, love diversion. But would it not be amazing to be able to say to your self and/or partner, hey, Im making buck while doing a hobby I love.
 
Looks like im riding against the tide here, just think its amazing that'll do all this for free and wont explore financial diversification to justify the hours and moaning.

Signing out...
 
Looks like im riding against the tide here, just think its amazing that'll do all this for free and wont explore financial diversification to justify the hours and moaning.

Signing out...
This is no financial question. You still don't get it.
 
Looks like im riding against the tide here, just think its amazing that'll do all this for free and wont explore financial diversification to justify the hours and moaning.

Signing out...

Sir, the people who have written this alternative firmware for Asus products, and the scripts to better the UE, are users themselves. They don’t mind doing the work to raise everyone up. These kind people would gladly accept a coffee or beer as much as praise, but offering to pay to get what YOU want offends them because they do this for fun. Money implies work, job, forced accountability...by all means, bring up a problem you’re having with their code and they’ll dive in to fix that, but the carrot you dangle just isn’t sweet enough to pique their interest. And in your case, “improve aimesh” is something only Asus can help you with. Maybe they’ll take your carrot. It IS possible a global multi billion Corp could use a few more shekels in their coffers.
Perhaps you might approach this from a different angle, friend: start a thread asking if anyone else has the problems with AiMesh that you’re having. Asus people check in here for feedback/ideas, and maybe someone can offer some insight as to why it’s not working as optimally as you’d like - there is such a thing as operator error, and sometimes, it’s a matter of not being fully aware of how things work when you try to use the existing tools to configure your system that causes problems. I suspect someone out here in the æther of the interwebz has had (or is having) the same issue(s), and might possibly be able to help you sort it out. A few thousand dollars is a pretty serious amount of dissatisfaction or frustration to be having, and I suspect that money came from many hours of toil. Why not take a minute or two to ask for a lifeline by putting your technical issues out here on the ocean of knowledge?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Apologies if I offending you, this wasnt indented.

I guess what Im trying to say is, for example: I'd like more control over the mesh network than meshAi provides, if pledges/donations met the mark, say $1000-3000, would it not justify the time and effort to work on it?

Bad example - as @AndreiV said above - no way to change anything in closed source AiMesh.
 
Donations of thanks and appreciation should have no strings attached.

But maybe this thread highlights the lack of a clear channel to provide feedback or suggestions in case RMerlin ever wants to peruse them.

Interestingly, Merlin recently asked on Twitter what people thought the single most useful feature of his firmware was. He wasn’t asking for suggestions, but there are multiple ways to give him feedback.
 
Looks like im riding against the tide here, just think its amazing that'll do all this for free and wont explore financial diversification to justify the hours and moaning.

Signing out...


Hear to Learn, but actually learn nothing, only accept your own viewpoint.
You've been told , repeatedly that new features are rare and no amount of money will change that.

This is a hobby, there is nothing to monetize.

This is a project , supported by an active community and those that can or want to already donate .
There are many coders/developers here , all helping , adding their ideas and skills , the whole community "engages" and helps in some way.
Merlin firmware is free, opensource , available to anyone and not a commercial product.
A hobby is just that , once monetized it becomes a business, a liability and makes you accountable.

You clearly have no concept of what a hobby or community are.
 
Donations of thanks and appreciation should have no strings attached.

But maybe this thread highlights the lack of a clear channel to provide feedback or suggestions in case RMerlin ever wants to peruse them.

Interestingly, Merlin recently asked on Twitter what people thought the single most useful feature of his firmware was. He wasn’t asking for suggestions, but there are multiple ways to give him feedback.

Frankly speaking I cannot answer to this question now :) I am using Merlin's FW since the times when OpenVPN was not part of the stock FW. So I switched to Merlin just because I wanted to have OpenVPN server. Since then I am using only Merlin's FW and stock FW is not an option for me :)
 
I think it might be good that I clarify my position on the matter of donations, money, and feature additions, as I haven't always made my stance clear (except on the feature additions).

Money: once money gets involved, people start having expectations. They expect you to become their personal tech support, or to make any change they wand you to make, or to release frequent updates even for older router models that can no longer be supported. I always kept a very low profile on that front for these reasons. I have one single Paypal link on the project website, a simple mention in the README file, and that's about it. Even the donation thread here on SNBForums was actually created by someone else, and it was also sticky'ed by another moderator. But I always rejected ideas of adding a Paypal link within the firmware itself, or on the Github page. I also rejected accepting other forms of payment. And I have never publicly asked people to donate. When people reach out to me saying they can't use Paypal and ask for an alternative, I politely tell them not to worry about it, and their intentions alone were good enough for me.

That way, if someone actually donates, it will be 100% out of his own intention, and he won't be able to get any special expectation about future updates. And this has worked very well. In fact, received donations are much more frequent that I would have expected. And so far, I only recall one single incident with someone who had donated, and got frustrated at me because I wouldn't spend my spare time personally answering the support questions he was emailing me, and he pointed out that as a donator, he expected me to be "treating him better".

So no, there will never be any kind of idea of donating for preferential advantages, special requests, or closer access to my time and resources. Donations will always be strictly for my past work that is currently available, as-is. Otherwise, a personal hobby would turn into a part-time job. I already have one full-time job, I don't need another one. I want to be able to work on this when I feel like it, when I can, and how I want to.


Feature requests: I have touched on these aspects a couple of times over the years. Here are the most important aspects, all listed together:

1) Large portions of the code are closed source. That means I have no control over almost anything related to the wireless portions of the firmware, for example. I'd say that at least half of the time someone asks me to change something, this is the number one reason why I can't do what is being asked.

2) Avoiding feature bloat. More features does not equal better. When there are 10 different knobs to turn just to adjust the volume, you end up not knowing how to properly adjust the volume at all. So, I stick to what is really essential, and belongs in a firewall and a router. I may be old school, but personally I hate a lot of modern software, because they try to do a bazillion thing, often forgetting to just do what it's intended for in a proper, reliable way. Modern web browsers are a good example of that, particularly Firefox. Those like me who were around back then remember what Ben's vision was when he started Firebird (which became Firefox): to get rid of the Mozilla bloat, and to move non-essential features into user plugins. 15 years later, look at the mess Firefox has become. Trying to find one single setting is hard. You get a bunch of icons and menu items which 90% of the users will never use, just getting in the way of being able to quickly and easily accomplish your goals. A lot of its features would belong in a user plugin, if Ben's original philosophy had been followed. So when Google Chrome appeared, it's no wonder the market massively moved from Firefox to Chrome. And now Chrome is slowly starting to become another bloatted, over-engineered piece of software, and so the wheel begins again with Microsoft Edge, Brave, etc...

3) Design by committee sucks. You know the saying, too many cooks spoil the meal. The same thing applies to software. I have a very specific idea in mind as to how the final product as a whole should be like. I picture the product to go in one very specific direction. I don't wand end-users also pushing it in the direction of a miniature NAS, AND a miniature media server, AND a miniature home automation center. Again, this can be applied in large measure to Firefox or Chrome these days.

4) What you might want does not always make sense, or isn't always practical. I'm most likely the one single person who best understands the Asuswrt code outside of Asus's own engineers. (and I only understand a portion of it). Not to sound arrogant, but I believe that I know better than anyone else out there about what can or cannot be done, while retaining some logic behind the actual design rather than hack and patch everyone's ideas on top of it.

5) The Asuswrt code has become increasingly complex over the years. This is the reason why I am adding fewer new features in 2020 than I was back in 2012 or 2013. One single person cannot fully understand the whole code. And that code is barely commented. So, touching X can very well lead to Y no longer working properly, and as you try to fix these two, then Z will end up going down. More features = even more complexity = loss of stability = many hours wasted not developing, but just trying to keep it all together. So, I am increasingly cautious about any addition to the code, particularly if that code has to directly deal with Asus's own code.

6) Maintaining the existing code is taking an increased amount of time. Back in 2012, merging a new GPL would take me about 2-3 hours of work. A few years later, this turned into 2 evenings of work. Flash forward to today: a new GPL merge can take me close to a week of my spare time. That leads to having less spare time for anything else, like feature changes, debugging or other improvements.


So this is basically why a) I don't want money to get an even bigger role in this project, and b) adding new features is increasingly low priority for this project.
 
Last edited:
Hear to Learn, but actually learn nothing, only accept your own viewpoint.
You've been told , repeatedly that new features are rare and no amount of money will change that.<snip>
.
@AndreiV Be more respectful in your posts or you will be temporarily banned.
 
Looks like im riding against the tide here, just think its amazing that'll do all this for free and wont explore financial diversification to justify the hours and moaning.

Signing out...

Based on your post above (bolded for emphasis), you seem to be a very stubborn fellow who did not make any attempt to understand or listen to the various responses given by other forum members here, which explain how this project works.

Do you know what kills open-source projects?

People like you.


I'm glad you're "signing off" ... hopefully you've learned your lesson and will avoid trying to hijack other open-source projects in the future.
 
I think it might be good that I clarify my position on the matter of donations, money, and feature additions, as I haven't always made my stance clear (except on the feature additions).

Money: once money gets involved, people start having expectations. They expect you to become their personal tech support, or to make any change they wand you to make, or to release frequent updates even for older router models that can no longer be supported. I always kept a very low profile on that front for these reasons. I have one single Paypal link on the project website, a simple mention in the README file, and that's about it. Even the donation thread here on SNBForums was actually created by someone else, and it was also sticky'ed by another moderator. But I always rejected ideas of adding a Paypal link within the firmware itself, or on the Github page. I also rejected accepting other forms of payment. And I have never publicly asked people to donate. When people reach out to me saying they can't use Paypal and ask for an alternative, I politely tell them not to worry about it, and their intentions alone were good enough for me.

That way, if someone actually donates, it will be 100% out of his own intention, and he won't be able to get any special expectation about future updates. And this has worked very well. In fact, received donations are much more frequent that I would have expected. And so far, I only recall one single incident with someone who had donated, and got frustrated at me because I wouldn't spend my spare time personally answering the support questions he was emailing me, and he pointed out that as a donator, he expected me to be "treating him better".

So no, there will never be any kind of idea of donating for preferential advantages, special requests, or closer access to my time and resources. Donations will always be strictly for my past work that is currently available, as-is. Otherwise, a personal hobby would turn into a part-time job. I already have one full-time job, I don't need another one. I want to be able to work on this when I feel like it, when I can, and how I want to.


Feature requests: I have touched on these aspects a couple of times over the years. Here are the most important aspects, all listed together:

1) Large portions of the code are closed source. That means I have no control over almost anything related to the wireless portions of the firmware, for example. I'd say that at least half of the time someone asks me to change something, this is the number one reason why I can't do what is being asked.

2) Avoiding feature bloat. More features does not equal better. When there are 10 different knobs to turn just to adjust the volume, you end up not knowing how to properly adjust the volume at all. So, I stick to what is really essential, and belongs in a firewall and a router. I may be old school, but personally I hate a lot of modern software, because they try to do a bazillion thing, often forgetting to just do what it's intended for in a proper, reliable way. Modern web browsers are a good example of that, particularly Firefox. Those like me who were around back then remember what Ben's vision was when he started Firebird (which became Firefox): to get rid of the Mozilla bloat, and to move non-essential features into user plugins. 15 years later, look at the mess Firefox has become. Trying to find one single setting is hard. You get a bunch of icons and menu items which 90% of the users will never use, just getting in the way of being able to quickly and easily accomplish your goals. A lot of its features would belong in a user plugin, if Ben's original philosophy had been followed. So when Google Chrome appeared, it's no wonder the market massively moved from Firefox to Chrome. And now Chrome is slowly starting to become another bloatted, over-engineered piece of software, and so the wheel begins again with Microsoft Edge, Brave, etc...

3) Design by committee sucks. You know the saying, too many cooks spoil the meal. The same thing applies to software. I have a very specific idea in mind as to how the final product as a whole should be like. I picture the product to go in one very specific direction. I don't wand end-users also pushing it in the direction of a miniature NAS, AND a miniature media server, AND a miniature home automation center. Again, this can be applied in large measure to Firefox or Chrome these days.

4) What you might want does not always make sense, or isn't always practical. I'm most likely the one single person who best understands the Asuswrt code outside of Asus's own engineers. (and I only understand a portion of it). Not to sound arrogant, but I believe that I know better than anyone else out there about what can or cannot be done, while retaining some logic behind the actual design rather than hack and patch everyone's ideas on top of it.

5) The Asuswrt code has become increasingly complex over the years. This is the reason why I am adding fewer new features in 2020 than I was back in 2012 or 2013. One single person cannot fully understand the whole code. And that code is barely commented. So, touching X can very well lead to Y no longer working properly, and as you try to fix these two, then Z will end up going down. More features = even more complexity = loss of stability = many hours wasted not developing, but just trying to keep it all together. So, I am increasingly cautious about any addition to the code, particularly if that code has to directly deal with Asus's own code.

6) Maintaining the existing code is taking an increased amount of time. Back in 2012, merging a new GPL would take me about 2-3 hours of work. A few years later, this turned into 2 evenings of work. Flash forward to today: a new GPL merge can take me close to a week of my spare time. That leads to having less spare time for anything else, like feature changes, debugging or other improvements.


So this is basically why a) I don't want money to get an even bigger role in this project, and b) adding new features is increasingly low priority for this project.
Suggest to paste that wall of text somewhere in the stickies, you know, visitors of this board *might* take the time to read it ;)
 
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