Dual band smart connect with 5ghz only

[Androidian]

I'm trying to steer most devices to high band 5ghz-2 from 5ghz-1. I'm using dual band smart connect with 5ghz only (5ghz-1 & 5ghz-2) and not with 2.4ghz. The default settings weren't working for me. But after a lot of guess and check, these settings seem to be working (screenshot). But I don't understand why for "Interface Select and Qualify Procedures" the "Bandwidth Utilization" needs to be at 0% for both bands (5ghz-1 & 5ghz-2). After checking the "missing manual," it says "STAs meeting the STA selection policy criteria for the radio will be steered to the first target if that radio's Bandwidth Utilization is LESS than the set value." In other words, 0% = radio is not in use. So wouldn't you want to put it high so that it will usually steer STAs that meet the criteria? Thanks again for any help!

 

[Deldarius]

Yeah, that one is not very well documented. 0% means that there is no Fixed bandwidth cap in place.

Look at it like a pie. the 5ghz frequency is the whole pie, now I take 60% of it for myself and you can have the rest.

 

[Androidian]

Ok. I think I get it. So, for 60% on 5ghz-2, I would be allowing up to 60%, which leaves 40% for 5ghz-1? So I would want to set it high to allow as much as possible, but setting it to zero actually turns it off, which is like setting it to 100%. Is that correct? Thanks.

 

[Deldarius]

Pretty much. 0% means the whole pie.

 

[Androidian]

Thanks again for your help. I'm attaching a new screenshot. It seems to be working very well for what I need. Not all devices seem to be affected by the steering of smart connect. But the ones I were hoping would be affected are getting steered, such as smartphones. I tried to turn off the bounce setting so that it somewhat aggressively tries to steer devices. Do you happen to know much about that? If I leave it on zero, will it always be trying to steer devices? And if so, is there any sort of disadvantage, such as battery drain on the devices, or memory usage on the router? Thank you!

 

[Deldarius]

THiggins (the owner and maestro of this awesome site) did do a write up on Smart Connect a number of years ago:

ASUS RT-AC3200 Smart Connect: The Missing Manual - SmallNetBuilder

SmallNetBuilder provides networking and IT news, reviews, help and information for professional and prosumer home, SOHO and small business users.

www.smallnetbuilder.com

It is really in depth on the subject. I myself have not played with the PHY rates (overkill for my needs). While it is a lot to chew on, it does deal with tri band routers (mine is only a two band).

The second page of the article talks about the Bounce Detect settings. I would try the default Bounce settings first and see how things go.

I hope this helps and happy fine tuning!

 

[Androidian]

Thanks again! One last question, if I select AC only for STA for 5-1, then non-AC STAs should not be steered to 5-2, correct? Am I thinking of that correctly? Just wondering because I have an N device that is getting steered. Thanks!

 

[Deldarius]

Under what category?

I would switch the VHT under the STA Selection Policy for 5ghz-2 to AC only. Then the 5ghz-2 would only accept AC devices. This would keep the non AC to the 5ghz-1.


If you do it as a trigger condition the device may not reconnect to the 5ghz-1 at all.


Repost your latest settings and we can get a clearer picture of things.

 

[Androidian]

So I think I've given up on smart connect. One of the main reasons I wanted to use it, was for a fallback if any of my devices on 5-2 got bumped because of a DFS event. However, after doing some research, it doesn't really seem like 160 megahertz is really any better than 80 megahertz, especially since I don't know if I even have any devices that can benefit from it. And I was having a lot of difficulty getting my devices to connect to either the router or the node that was closest to it. I think that there were several factors at play. I'm not sure if it was a combination of these things or just one of them, but I think it had to do with: smart connect, roaming ssistant, roaming block list, binding devices to the router or the node, and using guest index 1. As soon as I moved my devices to a band on the main network, it seemed to actually listen to the binding better. On guest network 1, they would never bind to the correct location and I did have intranet enabled. So now I'm going to try not using smart connect and not use the guest network. But I'm still not sure about roaming assistant. I have most of my devices bound to either the router or the node, but I have devices which are mobile not bound so that they can actually roam between the router and the node. However, I have not been able to find a setting for roaming assistant which allows devices like phones to appropriately roam. I'm guessing it's because my router and my node are too close together, but I have them on opposite ends of the house and on separate floors. So it's definitely frustrating because I would like to have them roam when necessary to maintain a good connection. Do you have any recommendations on the best settings for roaming assistant? Also, when a device does roam, should there be a noticeable cut out in connectivity? I thought I remember reading that for roaming assistant it shouldn't be a lengthy cutout. However, so far, when I have a device that does roam it seems to drop and then take a little while to reconnect and once it does connect, the device still takes a while to actually realize it's been reconnected. So I don't know if I can even use roaming assistant. It's frustrating because I got what I thought was a good router and mesh system with some extra features to help with the roaming, but it seems like I can't even use them. What's the point of having it if they don't even roam correctly and if they do there's a lengthy cutout in connectivity? Any feedback is still greatly appreciated. I just feel like I'm not sure of the best approach for a reliable connection. I used to have a separate access point, but it got to be a pain to always have to manually switch to it. I tried Google Home but I hated the lack of customization and the fact that it relied on always connecting to the cloud. But at least it seemed like devices could much more reliably connect to either the main router or the point (node). What's a guy got to do to find a good mesh system?

 

[Androidian]

Also, once a device roams to a node, how does it know to roam back to the main router once you're closer to it? After my devices roam to the node, they never seem to want to roam back to the main router, and I don't have these devices on the roaming block list and they are not bound to the node (or the router). I must be doing something wrong.

 

[Deldarius]

You have an awful lot going on here. We are going to need some more info to get a better idea how to tackle this.

Lets map out your topology here.
1. What routers/ap's do you have?
2. How far apart are they?
3.What devices are closest to which and what wifi protocols do they have? DFS support
4. Are they physically static? If yes can they be connected via Ethernet? Is it feasible to do so?
5. Tablets and/or phones?

This should be good for starters.

 

[Androidian]

Thanks for your reply. Overall area is 2,700 ft². The router and node (XT8s) are separated at a distance of about 30 ft straight line but there are 3 walls and 1 floor in between them. I'm using Ethernet backhaul. I already have my stationary devices bound to either the router or the node. I'm just trying to get my non-stationary devices working, all on only 5-2 (unless using smart connect with 5-1 and 5-2 can work better). They are not really bouncing, they just take forever to roam and when they do they lose connection for a while. In fact I'd like them to bounce more in the sense that when I get closer to either the router or the node that it bounces back to the stronger signal. But I also don't want it disconnecting all the time. That's a shame that there's no such thing as seamless roaming. I thought I remember reading elsewhere that either smart connect or roaming assistant was seamless, but I guess that's not true. I'll have to try to refigure out what to do and possibly turn some of the radios off on either the router or the node. Phones include Pixel 2 XL, Samsung Galaxy S8, Moto g stylus 2020, and some other older ones. Tablets include fire HD 8, Lenovo M8 Smart tab, one personal Chromebook, two school Chromebooks, and an older laptop. I don't think any of these will work well with 160 megahertz or DFS. So I'm just going to stick to 80 megahertz with no DFS on 5-2. Thanks again for your help.

 

[OzarkEdge]

Thanks for your reply. Overall area is 2,700 ft². The router and node (XT8s) are separated at a distance of about 30 ft straight line but there are 3 walls and 1 floor in between them. I'm using Ethernet backhaul. I already have my stationary devices bound to either the router or the node. I'm just trying to get my non-stationary devices working, all on only 5-2 (unless using smart connect with 5-1 and 5-2 can work better). They are not really bouncing, they just take forever to roam and when they do they lose connection for a while. In fact I'd like them to bounce more in the sense that when I get closer to either the router or the node that it bounces back to the stronger signal. But I also don't want it disconnecting all the time. That's a shame that there's no such thing as seamless roaming. I thought I remember reading elsewhere that either smart connect or roaming assistant was seamless, but I guess that's not true. I'll have to try to refigure out what to do and possibly turn some of the radios off on either the router or the node. Phones include Pixel 2 XL, Samsung Galaxy S8, Moto g stylus 2020, and some other older ones. Tablets include fire HD 8, Lenovo M8 Smart tab, one personal Chromebook, two school Chromebooks, and an older laptop. I don't think any of these will work well with 160 megahertz or DFS. So I'm just going to stick to 80 megahertz with no DFS on 5-2. Thanks again for your help.

My two nodes are 77' apart... one in a brick house and one in a detached brick garage.

OE

 

[Androidian]

These questions might also help me understand better what to do.
Will AiMesh roam devices between router and node without Roaming Assistant (with it turned off)? Will there still be a disconnect?
Does Smart Connect also have a disconnect? Is it different, or not as bad as, Roaming Assistant?
Would Smart Connect and Roaming Assistant work together simultaneously? What I mean is, can a device roam and switch bands at the same time? For example, from 5-2 on the router to 5-1 on the node? Or are they completely separate?
I also have an old AC-68 I can use for AiMesh. That obviously won't help with the dual band 5 GHz. But I'm wondering about dedicating the AC-68 for 2.4 only (turning off 5ghz radio), and then making the main router 5-2 only (turning off 2.4 and 5-1) and the node 5-1 only (turning off 2.4 and 5-2). Would roaming or Smart Connect work at all in this instance? If Smart Connect can work for band steering between different AP's/nodes, then that could be a possible solution. For a while, I turned 2.4 off on my main router and left all the other radios turned on. So my 2.4 devices would only connect to the node. This helped a lot to reduce roaming/bouncing for stationary devices. I left 5-1 in 5-2 turned on for both the router and the node but as I mentioned, my non-stationary devices don't roam well between the router and the node. That's why I'm wondering if some combination of disabling some of the radios could help?

 

[Androidian]

My two nodes are 77' apart... one in a brick house and one in a detached brick garage.

OE

Thanks! I guess mine are way too close together? Would turning down the Tx power (for 5-2) on the router help at all? What about adjusting the beacon interval?

 

[OzarkEdge]

Thanks! I guess mine are way too close together? Would turning down the Tx power (for 5-2) on the router help at all? What about adjusting the beacon interval?

See the advice in your other thread.

OE

 

[Tech9]

@Androidian - stop tweaking things. You're making it only worse. I would use a single 5GHz radio in this wired backhaul setup. XT8 is tri-radio system with one single intention - better performance when wireless backhaul is used. You don't need 2x 5GHz radios for your clients.

 

[Androidian]

I've been starting to realize that. I just thought I would have that option to help distribute bandwidth usage for all my devices. I have almost 70 total devices connected. 5-2 is the better radio (4x4 vs 2x2 with 5-1) so I guess I'll use that for my non-stationary devices. 5-1 still works well for some of my stationary devices. I was just trying to figure out if there's a way for my non-stationary devices to actually seamlessly roam between my router and my node. So far that sounds like a resounding no. Thanks.

 

[Androidian]

I'm still wondering if turning down the Tx power (for 5-2) on the router or adjusting the beacon interval will help at all? But I'm guessing the answer is no. Thanks.

 

[Tech9]

I have almost 70 total devices connected.

I'm still wondering if turning down the Tx power (for 5-2) on the router or adjusting the beacon interval will help at all?

Total of 70 devices connected is perhaps on both 2.4/5GHz bands. You don't have 70 active devices. You asked for an advice. I told you what I would do. From this point further you are free to tweak whatever you feel needs tweaking. This is your system and you can do whatever you want with it.