Giving up on my losing battle with Asus... what now?

[BCSteve]

I had an enormously frustrating situation that led me to replace my router three times, my cable modem twice, all my CAT6 cables and even my pc's motherboard... and I'm getting nowhere fast. I'm sure its the router that's the problem, even though its now been replaced twice. It has to be. Everything else has been ruled out.

Anyway, no need to re-hash that. I'm giving up. I'm now asking what model I should buy to replace it. I'm done with Asus so don't even think about recommending anything they sell please.

I don't want to do my own research because obviously that got me nowhere considering I did a lot of research that led me to buy my RT-N56U in the first place! Excuse my frustration... I'm just really sick of this and just want it to work.

Right now I'm heading out to my local Big Box to buy whatever the salesperson wants to tell me is the best they have. If it works for me, great... otherwise its just a stop-gap while I wait for your suggestions.

- Steven

ps. Advice on models to choose only please. No advice on fixing. If you really want to provide that, then please post on the thread I linked to (where i'll probably ignore it because I've really tried everything. I'm not an idiot and I logic'd this problem to death)

 

[Mike_G_D]

Not a specific model suggestion but a future setup suggestion you should consider:

1) Use a wired-only router and separate wireless access point (AP).

2) If possible use enterprise class equipment.

Of the two, if pricing or other reasons (i.e. lack of features and difficulty in setup) prevent you using enterprise class gear then at least strongly consider the first suggestion - separating the wired and wireless networks using a wired router and a wireless AP. Doing that will do two major things: 1) Make any future troubleshooting easier in that you can very quickly isolate the wired network from the wireless part just by disconnecting or shutting down the AP; and, 2) Should make the system more reliable because the AP doesn't need to handle any routing duties as that is left entirely up to the wired router. Wired routers can be more reliable than their all-in-one wireless cousins. The wired router JUST handles the routing and the wireless AP JUST handles the wireless access - separation of work.

You can even do a partial use of the enterprise gear suggestion - use an enterprise class router and a consumer AP, for example. I'd put the most money into the wired router myself.

You could even use one of your current wireless routers (assuming you haven't trashed them all yet given your frustrations) in AP mode - there is usually a setting in the web setup that allows you to shutdown the routing features and turn it into a "dumb" access point. If you do that it effectively becomes "just" an AP. Then combine that with a good quality wired router that does all of the routing heavy lifting.

One other thing to suggest is to use only 5GHz for wireless if at all possible as this avoids congestion on the 2.4GHz band. Of course it also means that all of your devices must be capable of operating on 5GHz and that the range may be limited.

I know this isn't exactly what you wanted (specific model suggestions) but if you are going to replace everything anyway then I think these are valid points to consider given all of the problems you have so far had.

Again, a separate wireless AP and wired router really help with any future troubleshooting issues AND, if you DO have problems on the wireless side at least you can just shut down the wireless stuff and not affect the wired clients as a temporary measure if needed. Nice feature to have, actually!

FWIW, my setup has been going very well and maintaining excellent stability for about 3 years now and consists of an enterprise class router, switch, and wireless AP. The main reason I use a separate switch was because my old router wasn't gigabit Ethernet and I needed more LAN ports. Otherwise, the router and AP have been going continuously for, as I said, about 3 years. My router is an old Cisco-Linksys RVO42; switch is a Cisco SG 100D-08; AP is a Netgear WNDAP350. Definitely not cutting edge stuff but VERY reliable! The newest version of the router now has gigabit LAN ports now and is reviewed on this site here: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanw...o-rv042g-dual-gigabit-wan-vpn-router-reviewed. My AP didn't get a good review on here, http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...80211n-dual-band-wireless-access-point-retest, but it has worked out very well for me - only once mysteriously shutting down it's 5GHz radio in the 3 years it's been in use which a reboot fixed with no issue since. I now only use the 5GHz band as I don't have any current 2.4GHz devices on my network but did run it in dual band mode for most of that time up until relatively recently. Router and switch have been completely solid since installation - no issues.

Again - major point, especially given all of your previous issues, is to buy separate wired router and wireless AP - I think that alone will give you a major boost in stability! Having everything in one box is convenient but it can lead to headaches with troubleshooting and can make that one box more failure prone due to added complexity and heat buildup issues, etc. Plus it makes that one box a central point of failure for your network, wired and wireless - if it goes down it ALL goes down!

Hope you didn't ignore this because it wasn't quite what you asked for - just trying to help!

-Mike

 

[BCSteve]

You know... I hadn't considered that before, but now that you mention it, it makes perfect sense. Quite honestly it wouldn't have occurred to me that you could still buy a wired-only router


I went to the local big box store and bought a cheap-o $30 D-Link wireless router. It is lacking some of the features I want and performance (range) isn't the greatest, but it confirmed to me that it was a router issue as I haven't had the same problem since. I'm not happy with it though, in that it takes a good minute from turning on a wireless device before it establishes a good connection. The devices find the wireless network right away, but have "limited connectivity" (ie. no Internet) for 30 to 90 seconds for some reason. At first I thought "oh crap, same issue!", but unlike the Asus... it eventually resolves.

I think I'll heed your advice though and start researching wired routers. All my "mission critical" devices are wired anyway. The wireless is really just for my wife's laptop, kindles, etc. The biggest job the wireless has to handle is the odd Skype video call.

So thank you for that.

 

[Mike_G_D]

No problem - sounds like it could be a good solution for you. Hope it works out! Let me know how it goes.

BTW, there's a whole section on these forums devoted to wired-only routers and many reviews on this site so be sure and check those resources out when you're ready to buy a wired router. I really would put the most effort, care, research, and money into that router - get the best you can afford and pay major attention to the quality (if you get enterprise or small business level, for example, they are usually built much more solidly than consumer class gear). Then, just try any of your collection of wireless routers, assuming you haven't tossed them out, as an access point - you'll need to go into the setup and make that change; there's a whole article on this site about doing that: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...onvert-a-wireless-router-into-an-access-point. Even if the wireless router was flakey as a router by turning off the routing functions and making it just an access point you will likely bypass the major source of its issues and it may work perfectly fine as an AP.

-Mike

 

[BCSteve]

So I've tried to research a wired-only router... they aren't so common these days The few that SNB lists in their ranking all get pretty crappy scores when it comes to "reliability", which is my greatest concern.

Anecdotally, I find forum posts with people suggesting that wired is for the dinosaurs but I now tend to agree with you that a dedicated-to-the-job device makes more sense. But perhaps the world has moved on and I'm better off getting a high end Wi-Fi. But that's what I DID do!! The rt-n56u still ranks as the #1 in its class on SNB and its absolutely horrible. What good is range and throughput when it only stays active for [random amount of time between 10 seconds and 10 hours]?

I'm almost inclined to stick with this $30 piece of crap I have active right now, and just resolve to replace it whenever necessary. Surprisingly enough, its throughput is high enough to handle my 50Mbit WAN on the wired connections. As I said before, wireless isn't as important to me... the range isn't as good as the Asus (greater speed drop-offs at the corners of the house) and even right beside the router I can't get anywhere near wired speeds (on the Asus I could... when it worked). But it works. The lack of USB storage kind of sucks, but really I didn't use that hardly at all anyway. It has remote access, which is something I thought I'd lose on a low-end device.

I'd still rather get a proper solution, so if anyone has a particular current device to look at, I'd like to check it out.

 

[Mike_G_D]

Well, wired routers are certainly NOT dinosaurs! At least in the enterprise and small business realm. I would say that it may be difficult to find consumer class wired routers now as the market is heavily biased towards the do-it-all feature rich wireless routers.

But, again, getting a higher quality wired router will bring extra benefits in terms of reliability and durability. Here are two reviews on this site concerning relatively recent wired routers:

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanw...festream-gigabit-dual-wan-vpn-router-reviewed

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanw...o-rv042g-dual-gigabit-wan-vpn-router-reviewed

The second is an updated version of what I use. Because there is not a lot of really dramatic changes in wired routing compared to all of the a-b-g-n-ac-ad stuff you see in wireless stuff you won't see as much "flash" and rapid model changes in wired routers.

Don't believe that "dinosaur" claim! Just read the reviews on here and other sites for business/enterprise class wired routers and decide how much your willing to spend. Also check through the forum section on wired routers here at http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7. And check through the customer reviews on Amazon and Newegg (for example) for wired routers. Again, a good $130 or more enterprise class wired router might seem expensive for a what appears to be an ugly no-frills plain device but the quality you get will be worth it.

Personally, that's the route (no pun intended) I would go if I were you. I'd read the reviews for enterprise class equipment and pay attention to those who really know what they are doing such as experienced IT pros and the more technically inclined users/reviewers. But it's up to you - that's just my opinion.

-Mike

 

[BCSteve]

I'd say $150-ish is my budget. And I'm with you on your opinion. I'll read those reviews and hopefully they are units I can actually find somewhere. Thanks.

 

[coxhaus]

If you are trying to stay under $150.00 you might take a look at the Cisco RV180 wired router. I own one and with the latest firmware it seems to work fairly well.

It is very stable now and sells for about $100.00.

It is a little funky to configure with IE10 though. I would use IE9 to upgrade the firmware.

 

[BCSteve]

I only glanced at the 180 because on SNB's review page, it give it a very low "reliability" score, and reliability is my #1 concern here. It only gets a 2.3 (out of 5?) "overall". I get that these are just user reviews, but...

Then again, when I bought my Asus it had awesome user reviews, and look where that got me (since then, you can see there are hundreds of complaints like mine)

 

[remixedcat]

My Amped Wireless R20000G has been rock solid and has awesome coverage!
I got a review here if you would like further info

I have only had to reboot it for 2 firmware upgrades.

 

[BCSteve]

never heard of it... interesting.

Meanwhile, a bit of an update: I got Amazon involved. Even though it was WAY after the return period, the customer service rep initiated a 3-way call with her, myself and someone at Asus. She clearly identified herself as being from Amazon and then suggested they do more to resolve the issue. On the spot, they agreed to RMA the unit again, this time with them paying both shipping directions. How about that? After Asus hung up, the Amazon rep also gave me a $20 credit for my trouble.

So A++++ for Amazon.

But as I said, I've given up on this router. At best, I'll use it as an AP. I'm still hunting for a wired router. I'm having a hard time finding any at any store I can actually buy from and at a reasonable price (I'm in Canada). I'm going to read more up on the Amped (thanks remixedcat) because initial searches yield nothing but positives.

 

[remixedcat]

So Asus hung up on you?

You can get Amped routers in Canada. If you can't find a decent retailer you can order direct.

 

[Mike_G_D]

You probably won't find too many small business class wired routers at most big box consumer department stores or more popular mass market electronic stores. Amazon or Newegg are what I usually use. Otherwise, if you must see the stuff in person then your best bet would probably be office supply stores like Staples or Office Depot (not sure if in Canada) or equivalent and electronic supply stores like Frys (again - not sure if in Canada); also whatever local office supply outlets that cater to small and large office computer needs.

I'm not a big fan of so-called "high powered" wireless routers built for the consumer market - reviews on this site have been mixed at best. I still believe you get best reliability and longevity by separating the tasks (wired and wireless) and using the best equipment you can buy and not the flashiest or most trendy. But, no matter what, check around at all the reviews you can (as you've been doing). I have no experience shopping for gear in Canada so I can't help you much there. I would be surprised, though, if you couldn't locate at least one on-line source that ships to you in a reasonable time frame and for a reasonable cost.

Something to consider in terms of upping the transmitter power in any RF device - even if it is done right it will not improve the other direction, that is, it will only mean that the unit with the "high power" transmitter will be "heard" further (again, ideally, as that depends on many factors in reality) but it does nothing for the unit on the opposite end. So, for a typical wireless router or access point if you bump up its power you might see some improvement in its range in terms of it being "heard" further but in actual use, with the same client devices which are still broadcasting back at the same levels as always, the router or AP won't "hear" them any better (all other things being equal).

In RF system design in general, it is generally accepted that of the three elements, receiver sensitivity, antenna quality, and transmitter power output, the first two are far more important and yield the best "bang for the buck" in terms of cost and design effort. It's actually relatively easy to bump up transmitter output power (relatively speaking) compared to improving receiver design and antenna efficiency and gain in most cases especially when dealing with the compact devices used in consumer wifi gear. But bumping up transmitter power alone yields the least overall improvement when nothing else in the system is changed. If you have only ONE element to change it is nearly always best to improve the antenna as that will automatically yield better transmit and receive performance. The problem, of course, is that most wifi multi-stream routers do not include user-changeable true dual-band antennas and even if they do, there are not many good quality dual band antennas (most are single band, 2.4GHz only) that you can get at reasonable cost and with practical mechanical design and useability; additionally, most folks won't go through the trouble of changing out all three antennas in a three-stream device, for example, so only of the antennas gets changed usually - this can yield weird random results when the device is looking at all three of its antennas and two are vastly different from the third. Sometimes this works ok but sometimes it might get a little "hinky" depending on the design of the device.

In RF it's nearly always "YMMV" so someone might get a "high power" router and it works great for them but for someone else, not so much. Antenna changes would be most preferable but can be tricky to get right for the average consumer.

-Mike

 

[stevech]

High power routers are like a rock-band's amplifiers/speakers (you hear them, they don't hear your unamplified weak signal at all or as well). A weak signal received by the router causes a bit rate decline on that direction, with reduces the throughput in both directions for that client.

Some "hi power" routers or bridges have a receiving-side amplifier - called a low-noise-amplifier (LNA). But an affordable LNA adds a lot of noise while amplifying - and often the net-sum is nil.

So, the only real way to get better range without altering the clients' hardware is to use antenna gain at the router. Today's MIMO routers don't enable doing that. MIMO can add a few dB of benefit - but not nearly enough to make a difference in weak signal conditions.

The best range, at lower speeds, is 11b/g. Indeed, the lowest speed in 11b (or 11g's lowest bit rate) is by far the best for range - and for many mobile devices, it's good enough.