1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
Dismiss Notice

Welcome To SNBForums

SNBForums is a community for anyone who wants to learn about or discuss the latest in wireless routers, network storage and the ins and outs of building and maintaining a small network.

If you'd like to post a question, simply register and have at it!

While you're at it, please check out SmallNetBuilder for product reviews and our famous Router Charts, Ranker and plenty more!

goCoax MoCA 2.5 adapter

Discussion in 'MoCA, HomePlug, HPNA' started by gocoax, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. degrub

    degrub Very Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,073
    Cap the unused ports with 75 ohm terminator caps.
    I forget what the freq range is for moca 1 & 1.1. That splitter also may only be one way. No harm in trying it as is though.
     
  2. rmann2020

    rmann2020 Occasional Visitor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    35
    Unfortunately I don't have any terminator caps handy. Should I still try without?
     
  3. CaptainSTX

    CaptainSTX Part of the Furniture

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,496
    Yes try without the caps. If it improves throughput though you should replace the splitter with a 2-way to reduce attenuation. Terminators do nothing to reduce attenuation.
     
  4. Booboo22

    Booboo22 Regular Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2020
    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    I would not use that satellite combiner... we know that the 2-way splitters are working so far. The Satellite combiner is designed for different application of frequencies (for the LNBs) and therefore you are better off with what you have now. I have to think more about what could be the problem. To recap then, the whole-house PVR is working, TV is working, cable modem is working but MoCA 2.5 is still dropping intermittently yes?
     
  5. Booboo22

    Booboo22 Regular Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2020
    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Both MoCA 1.1 and 2.5 work above 1Ghz, but the MoCA uses more bands (5). Yes, ideally he should be using MoCA 2.0 Antronix splitters but they are not required per standards, just need a good quality splitter to work.
     
  6. Booboo22

    Booboo22 Regular Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2020
    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Out of curiosity, have you tried the current configuration but disconnect the Cable Modem (but leave everything else on) to see if the problem with the MoCA 2.5 adapters goes away? Do you happen to know if your modem is DOCSIS 3.1 by any chance? DOCSIS 3.1 cable modems can interfere with MoCA 2.0 and 2.5 since they use a larger frequency range in the downstream.
     
  7. rmann2020

    rmann2020 Occasional Visitor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    35
    Correct, whole-house PVR is working, TV is working, cable modem is working but MoCA 2.05 is still dropping intermittently.

    If I disconnect the Cable modem, I won't have internet. Are you suggesting to try that just to see if the adapters stay stable but don't actually allow me to go to the internet?

    Here's what I could find on the modem:
    staus.png

    staus_moca.png

    basicsettings_moca.png
     
  8. Booboo22

    Booboo22 Regular Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2020
    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    According to the datasheet, it's a DOCSIS 3.1 modem but both transmit and receive frequencies are below MoCA, and the modem is designed to support MoCA 2.0 Bonded... So that's unlikely to be the issue...

    One other suggestion, you will loose internet but just as a test. Disconnect the 4-port splitter from the incoming (CableCo) drop. So you are isolated from the street. See if that helps. You said you have an atttenuator at the point of entry (PoE), which I assume is because the signal from the street is too hot (high), and is needed for the modem. A hot signal could also interfere with MoCA, particularly 2.0 and above, in which case you might need a higher-value attenuator.
     
  9. rmann2020

    rmann2020 Occasional Visitor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    35
    I managed to get my hands on a no-name 2-way 5-2500 MHz splitter and have replaced the previously installed Antronix 2-way splitter. Stability has yet to improve. I'll keep monitoring and report back if that changes.
    I also picked up a few 75 ohm terminator caps in case needed in the future.

    Regarding the 3db attenuator, it wasn't provided by my CableCo. I added it based on a recommendation received after observing high tanges in both the upstream and downstream signals on the modem.
    What would be considered an acceptable signal level for MoCA 2.0?

    I have not installed the moca filter before the modem and also have not disconnected the 4-port splitter from the incoming drop as yet. Those will be my next tests if needed.


    IMG_20200323_143432.jpg
     
    L&LD likes this.
  10. degrub

    degrub Very Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,073
    i believe the MOCA amps self modulate to an acceptable power. The moca 2.5 signal is not going through another amp is it ?

    Can you get to the diagnostic pages and show us what the power dB level is ?
    You'll need to get down to just the in house cable with only the moca modems first, if that is stable start adding back devices until the instability returns. if it has a fixed duration between events, it is likely an active device. If it is random, it may be a poor connector termination, shield ground, or a white noise source like a motor starter relay or similar.
     
  11. jrmtz85

    jrmtz85 Regular Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    89
    I echo @degrub . Unplug everything, even the modem. Start with just the 2 MOCA adapters and check the transmission rate/stability. Then, one by one, add devices, checking transmission and stability, until you see which one is the issue. If you start off with instability, then it may be a cabling issue.
     
    L&LD likes this.
  12. gocoax

    gocoax Regular Contributor

    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Messages:
    53
    First, the link rate of your device is not good. If you are using the default configuration, you should can get about 3500Mbps rate.
    Please check the cable, splitter, make sure they are MoCA compatible.

    Next, LOF is the RF frequency to which the MoCA interface was tuned when last operational. Normally, the devices in the same network will share the same LOF. No need to change them. Except you want to change the MoCA band. For example, you want to use D-band high now, not Ex-D band.

    The Last, NC negotiation. NC is the network controller. Normally, the highest MoCA Version device in the network will be the Network Controller. By default, we should enable the negotiation, especially there are some old MoCA version devices in the same network.
     
  13. rmann2020

    rmann2020 Occasional Visitor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    35
    Given that I'd like to only use D-High band, what value should I set for LOF on both adapters?

    Should the NC be enabled for both devices or just one?

    For Security settings, do I need to enable? If so, is D-ext only required? Even though I'm using D-high band only in MoCA Settings, I found that D-Ext was the only band needed for Security settings.

    I will give this a try at the next possible window. With the whole family stuck at home, they aren't to fond of my taking down both cable and internet. I'll report back once I've completed this test.
     
  14. jrmtz85

    jrmtz85 Regular Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    89
    May have to be some late night testing after everyone is out in that case :) .

    And i'll echo that some of the settings on these are not well explained/documented.
     
  15. rmann2020

    rmann2020 Occasional Visitor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    35
    I have completed a few preliminary tests and wanted to share these early results before going deeper. After connecting the adapters MoCA ports directly using the coax run from the basement to the second floor (no splitters in use), I noticed that the PHY Rates were still low. I decided to test with all bands enabled to see if there was any difference... and as you can see by the results below, the rates jumped to where they should be (I think). I then tried to go back to D-High only (via updating settings on both adapters, saving and then rebooting), but the second floor adapter has yet to connect. Is it possible that D-High alone is what's causing my instability and low rates?

    Here are the results for my tests:
    Note: all settings are duplicated on both adapters except where noted

    These settings were constant across all my tests:
    • MoCA Settings:
      • Network Search enabled is checked
      • LOF = 1150
      • TX Power = 10
      • Beacon Power Level = 10
      • Preferred NC is checked for basement adapter only
    • Security Settings: (both adapters)
      • D-Ext Security enabled
      • D-High, D-Low disabled

    Test 1: Adapters connected via basement -> second floor coax run using MoCA ports on both adapters (All bands enabled)
    • MoCA Settings:
      • All bands enabled
    Device Status and PHY Rates:
    • Basement (aka Master) adapter
    test 1 device status master.png test 1 PHY master.png
    • Second Floor (aka bedroom) adapter

    test 1 device status bedroom.png test 1 PHY bedroom.png



    Test 2: Adapters connected via basement -> second floor coax run using MoCA ports on both adapters (D-High only)
    • MoCA Settings:
      • D-High enabled
      • D-Ext, D-Low disabled (unchecked)
    Device Status and PHY Rates:
    • second floor adapter still not connect so no results to share yet
     
  16. rmann2020

    rmann2020 Occasional Visitor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    35
    Test 3: Adapters connected via basement -> second floor coax run using MoCA ports on both adapters (All bands enabled on basement adapter, D-High only on second floor adapter)

    I decided to go back to all bands for the basement adapter to see if it would connect... and it did.
    • MoCA Settings:
      • Basement adapter: All bands enabled
      • Second floor adapter: D-High only
    Device Status and PHY Rates:
    • Basement (aka Master) adapter
    test 3 devices status master.png test 3 phy master.png
    • Second Floor (aka bedroom) adapter
    test 3 devices status bedroom.png test 3 phy bedroom.png
     
  17. rmann2020

    rmann2020 Occasional Visitor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    35
    Test 4: basement MoCA port -> second floor 2-way splitter -> second floor adapter MoCA port (All bands enabled on basement adapter, D-High only on second floor adapter)

    After Test 3, I decided to introduce a splitter in the second floor only. I wasn't able to re-establish a connection. I then tried to fallback to Test 3 by removing the splitter but still can't re-establish the connection.

    Is there a sequence of rebooting/power cycling the adapters required to establish a connection after a change has been made? I would have thought that restoring Test 3 would have yielded the same results...

    I'm going to pause at this point and wait for feedback before I continue testing further. Thanks to the community in advance again for all your help thus far and sticking with me to see this through. Hopefully this will help others in the future as well.
     
  18. rmann2020

    rmann2020 Occasional Visitor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    35
    Just following up to see if anyone has any advice or guidance to share about my posted results. Thanks
     
  19. L&LD

    L&LD Part of the Furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2013
    Messages:
    12,616
    A summary would be helpful. :)
     
  20. gocoax

    gocoax Regular Contributor

    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Messages:
    53
    After you changed the MoCA band, normally you need to change the LOF at the same time. Then save and reboot.
    We don't suggest to use different band in the same network.