UPnP - Multiple Xbox One Gaming Consoles & NAT

[Vexira]

Ahhh I see your not running the current Merlin firmware which is based off the latest asus wrt so if you read the first post you wouldnt have to ask. You might not be affected cause your running the lots firmware.

 

[Vexira]

Yes, but too many unique features to the GT-AC5300 for me to want to devote that much time on just one single model, especially one that will ultimately have a fairly small userbase.

That's understandable, here's to hoping that one day in the distant future, support for it will be a viable option.

 

[reerden]

Just a heads up for Xbox users with UPnP issues here. The current beta dashboard has an "alternative port" option that allows you to select a port from a list. The console will then always use that port, instead of the default automatic option (that selects either 3074 or a random port).

This allows you to use port forwarding for multiple consoles. It is expected that this update goes public in October.

 

[jrmwvu04]

Ahhh I see your not running the current Merlin firmware

Well, there it is. Weird that it makes a difference, but I understand how that goes sometimes.

 

[Vexira]

Well, there it is. Weird that it makes a difference, but I understand how that goes sometimes.

different firmware different implementation of minupnp, can you run the nat test here and post the results:
http://nattest.net.in.tum.de/

 

[ColinTaylor]

Ahhh I see your not running the current Merlin firmware which is based off the latest asus wrt so if you read the first post you wouldnt have to ask. You might not be affected cause your running the lots firmware.

Well, there it is. Weird that it makes a difference, but I understand how that goes sometimes.

It's makes no difference, the UPnP problem was fixed by Merlin back in May and the same fixes were applied to the LTS firmware.

 

[Vexira]

It's makes no difference, the UPnP problem was fixed by Merlin back in May and the same fixes were applied to the LTS firmware.

I wasn't aware the lts was patched. I was quirous if the lts has the same nat type, but then again it most likely would.

 

[ColinTaylor]

I wasn't aware the lts was patched. I was quirous if the lts has the same nat type, but then again it most likely would.

John tracks the fixes that Merlin makes quite closely. So if any of them are also applicable to LTS he applies them.

 

[Vexira]

John tracks the fixes that Merlin makes quite closely. So if any of them are also applicable to LST he applies them.

Well thanks for telling me about that. I really appreciate that.

 

[jrmwvu04]

different firmware different implementation of minupnp, can you run the nat test here and post the results:
http://nattest.net.in.tum.de/

Seems to require java, and I don't have that on my systems. I'll look into running that when I get a chance and report back.

It's makes no difference, the UPnP problem was fixed by Merlin back in May and the same fixes were applied to the LTS firmware.

That's sorta what I thought but I make enough mistakes as it is so I leave it to folks like yourself.

 

[e38BimmerFN]

The main issue for this thread is some users with two or more game consoles are having problems getting OPEN NAT on either the 2nd console or getting OPEN NAT in the 2nd console using same game as the 1st console, all being online at the same time. Mostly getting OPEN NAT in same game running on two or more game consoles. The main issue is that some routers having different NAT kinds. Older generation routers have FULL CONE NAT while some mid to newer generation routers have Port Address Restricted or Symmetric NAT. FULL CONE nat routers with just using uPnP seem to support OPEN NAT across the board even using same game for two or more consoles online at the same time. While Port Address or Symmetric NAT and uPnP seem to have an impact of getting OPEN NAT in same game with two or more consoles online at the same time. The idea is mainly to get two or more consoles configured for OPEN NAT on the consoles and in the game for two or more consoles while using just uPnP with out having to configure any other router configurations. Sometimes even configuration other router features like Port Forward doesn't help either.

Seen some games where doesn't seem to matter the NAT status and some games seem more critical for NAT status.

MS has started implementing a port change feature with in the xbox console to allow users to set up a different game port for additional consoles being online. However this is still in the beta stage and supposedly being released next month. We shall see if this helps both console and in game as well.

Please review this as I've collected testing data on various Mfr routers and testing of xbox game consoles with these routers and FW configurations:
http://badmodems.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21

These results are what I tested that works and what doesn't work. Overall theres a few different areas that all of this comes into play.

What game are you playing with your consoles?

I might regret asking this. What is the issue? Is it more than two Xbox consoles not working? I have two that work fine. Same network, same game, etc. What is the situation anyone is looking to solve?

 

[e38BimmerFN]

Yes you need JAVA and use a ESR version of FireFox to get that test to work well. Theres links to the test site and the ESR version of FF browser as well if you want to test it out.

What model and Mfr router and ISP modem do you have?

Seems to require java, and I don't have that on my systems. I'll look into running that when I get a chance and report back.

That's sorta what I thought but I make enough mistakes as it is so I leave it to folks like yourself.

 

[Vexira]

Seems to require java, and I don't have that on my systems. I'll look into running that when I get a chance and report back.

That's sorta what I thought but I make enough mistakes as it is so I leave it to folks like yourself.

ill awatit to hear from you.

 

[jrmwvu04]

 

[e38BimmerFN]

Is OEM FW loaded on your Asus router or is Merlin loaded for this test? What version of FW?

 

[Vexira]

Is OEM FW loaded on your Asus router or is Merlin loaded for this test? What version of FW?

its the lts version so i assume its johns fork

 

[Vexira]

Broadcom patches the kernel netfilter module as well as iptables userspace tools to add fullcone support.

I have no way of eally testing this beyond relying on this online testing tool. And as I said before, I'm still not convinced this will suddenly resolve every gamer's issues - if their port forwarding doesn't work properly, then this will not change a thing.

let me guess this is a kernel based restriction, or an sdk based one, or the code it uses would need a major hack to be back ported, or this is exlusive to the 382 code base and the new kernel and we have to beg asus to back port it?

 

[jrmwvu04]

Is OEM FW loaded on your Asus router or is Merlin loaded for this test? What version of FW?

Latest version of John’s fork

 

[e38BimmerFN]

Does Johns Fork include the RMerlin IPTables fix?

 

[john9527]

Does Johns Fork include the RMerlin IPTables fix?

Yes

EDIT: AFAIK, there are three things that can affect how the port forwarding will work....
- The SDK (and therfore the netfilter modules) for the router. In this case, each router that uses a different SDK MAY behave differently....an N66 may be different from an AC68 which may be different from an AC3200....
- The miniupnpd implementation. This should be the same across all of Merlin (and my fork), but may be different for ASUS firmware vs DD-WRT vs Tomato...
- The creation and ordering of the firewall rules, which again will be different depending on the firmware stream being used. In this case, even my fork is different from the latest Merlin.

EDIT2: Something to think about with respect to Full Cone NAT. According to some of the references previously posted, my take away is that it's defining characteristic is that it will accept UNSOLICITED packets, just like defining a manual port forward. Do you really want an application to have the ability to open a random port fully to the internet? In my mind, that's why game manufacturers need to move away from that as a requirement, and why most routers have already restricted that capability.