WNDR3700 significant shorter radius than WRT320N?

[RamGuy]

I've just made the switch from Linksys WRT320 Dual-Band router to the Netgear WNDR3700 Simultaneously Dual-Band router..

I made the switch after reading the review and was hugely impressed with the really powerful hardware in this device, along with it soon to be supported by DD-WRT made it no doubt that I wanted this device!

First thing first, the firmware is just meh.. Going from DD-WRT on my WRT320N to this is simply a huge step backwards in every possible way, but luckily there will be a DD-WRT firmware for the WNDR3700 soon!


There is just one thing that bothers me a lot with this device, it's the range of the wireless? The radius simply feels significant poorer than my WRT320N?

Considering I use almost identical wireless settings, I use the same wireless computer, in the exact same locations and the router itself is placed on the very same spot as the WRT320N it makes me wonder why the signal strength isn't able to put up with the WRT320N at all?


I was using N-only 5GHz, with MAC-filtering, hidden SSID and no encryption on the WRT320N, and now I'm running the very same settings on the WNDR3700 with the latest firmware and video network activated.

Only difference is that with the WNDR3700 I also have a 2.4GHz N-only network running for my Google Nexus One, as it doesn't support the 5GHz band and therefore can't connect to it.


In comparison to the WRT320N I get 4 / 5 bars in the Windows7 wireless console with the WNDR3700 compared to always 5 / 5 with the WRT320N, and the reported speeds are rarely above 180mbps, compared to the WRT320N when it barley never dropped below 200mbps.

When taking my laptop upstairs I always had 4 / 5 with the WRT320N reporting around 180-240mbps speeds.. The WNDR3700 have 2-3 / 5 bars and I never see any reported speed above 140mbps.



When taking my computer to the bathroom (yeah it happens that I do e-mail and stuff while taking a bath) the WNDR3700 becomes almost useless with 1 / 5 bars and barley any solid / stable connection at all, compared to the WRT320N where I normally would still have 3-4 / 5 bars and reported speeds over 100mbps?


How come the eight internal antenna design of the WNDR3700 seems to be so much poorer on the 5.0GHz band compare to the WRT320N which also features internal antennas (three?)?

Even when being in the same room as the WNDR3700, just 3m away from it in free sight I wont get reported more than 240mbps, it do happens if I take my laptop 1m away from it that I might see some reported 300mbps love, but that's really random, on the other side the WRT320N would give me reported 300mbps almost anywhere in the same room?

 

[thiggins]

Don't concentrate on those "reported speeds". You want to measure actual throughput.
5 Ways To Fix Slow 802.11n Speed

It could also be that your client is more compatible with the WRT320N's Broadcom radio than the WNDR3700's Atheros radio.

What client are you using for these "reported speed" measurements?

 

[RamGuy]

I use my Lenovo ThinkPad T400s with it's Intel Centrino 5300 (3x3) card, the same I used when having the WRT320N.

In about a week or so I will receive my new Lenovo ThinkPad W510, which will include the Intel Centrino 6300 Ultimate-N (3x3) NIC.


I don't normally trust the Wireless Console in Windows, as they very often are far off when it comes to actual throughput, but it do seem to working okay for measuring signal strength to some degree..

There is no doubt about when using my laptop on the bathroom the signal is way weaker with the WNDR3700 compared to the WRT320N, not just because of the reported 1 / 5 bars and choppy speeds reported, but more because of the fact that my entire web-surfing and e-mail experience is having some difficulties, with the WRT320N I couldn't really tell the difference between surfing the web and handling my e-mail if I was stationed in the living room downstairs (same room as the router) and get reported 5 / 5 @ 300mbps, or take a rest on my bed with 5 / 5 240-300mbps, or sitting in the living room upstairs with 4-5 / 5 @ 200-240mbps or in the bathroom with 3-4 / 5 @ 120-200mbps


The throughput and latency was simply good enough to not disturb with what I was doing on my computer in any degree, but with the WNDR3700 things is different, when using it my laptop on the bathroom there is some noticeable differences compared to when I had the WRT320N, if it's related to low throughput or simply too high latency I don't know, I suspect some kind of combination between the two, but the fact is that things have gone from working flawlessly to barley working a few spots in the house?


When it comes to the wireless settings, optimizing these for maximum throughput and range.. There isn't really much to deal with when it comes to this WNDR3700 router, as the firmware as a whole is really lacking some in-depth configuration abilities.. Can't wait for DD-WRT to be supporting this device, because the firmware is simply yack.

I've tried optimizing things as good as I can:

Region: Europe
Enable Video Network
Hidden SSID
Channel: 36
Up to 300mbps mode
Security option: none
Long preamble
Transmit power control: 100%
MAC Filtering enabled


Considering I'm the only one whom uses and utilize the 5GHz band, and there is no other 5GHz wireless network around.. Actually there is just three - four other networks around my house, logically as there is only five other houses within a 200m radius. There shouldn't be much / any interfering?



So it all comes down to the Intel NIC responding better to the Broadcom based routers compared to the Atheros based ones? That's odd as it has always worked very well with the D-Link DVG-5802S (almost identical hardware as the DIR-655 A2) upstairs running the 2.4GHz network for everyone else not featuring either N-capable NIC's.


Another funny note is that I ripped my old DIR-655 A2 apart and mounted the Atheros wireless NIC in my moms computer (yeah, had to wire up some extra antennas as well), as her older Intel NIC was kinda choppy, but even when she was running the same identical NIC in her computer as the router, my Intel 5300 NIC was still having better coverage and throughputs?

So Atheros + Atheros (the exact same NIC / model or not) doesn't equal the best combination for stability, throughput nor coverage?



So there isn't really any way to figure out how well a routers NIC and antennas actually will work with your computers wireless NIC before you try it out yourself? Hopefully things will be better with the new Intel Centrino 6300 NIC, but I doubt it.. Sadly I can't replace the wireless NIC inside the WNDR3700 either, as it's mounted on the board itself isn't it? I guess the stock firmware wouldn't recognize it either, but with DD-WRT coming up I could actually in theory replace it with a Broadcom NIC as the firmware works with both, but the integrated Netgear antennas might not be compatible?


Why doesn't any router feature Intel NIC's? They seems to be the most solid and reliable ones, supporting the 450mbps speeds, but still you never see Intel NIC inside any routers, why?

 

[thiggins]

Thanks for the additional detail. I use the Intel 5300 as my standard wireless test client and it does operate pretty well with all router chipsets. I'd update the driver if you already haven't. Intel updates it surprisingly often.

I agree that it's unlikely you're getting any 5 GHz interference.

It's possible that you have a WNDR3700 with a weak 5 GHz radio. I'd also try shutting off the video mode if you already haven't, although I doubt that has any effect on signal strength.

In general manfs don't want to use separate cards in routers, they add too much cost. And Intel isn't interested in the router / AP market, only client applications.

I guess the best option is to go back to the Linksys and sell the WNDR3700.

 

[R. Aster]

RamGuy,

I see you say that the locations are identical. I have noticed during experiments with my WNDR3700 that moving the router or my adaptor even a few inches or rotating it a few degrees can change the SS and connect speed radically in an obstructed environment (like my house). You might try some tests along these lines.

That said, I do have trouble getting a really solid signal to my USB adapator (WUSB600N) on 5 GHz one floor down and in the shadow of a large HVAC return duct (I suspect) but can usually get 4 of 5 bars and 88-100%. (The 2.4 GHz band is a piece of cake.) My connect speed varies from 108-270 mbps with actual throughput about 85-105 mbps typically, both up and down.

Good luck,
RA

 

[RamGuy]

I might try a few things and see if it works, I don't know in which direction these antennas travel best / furthest?

Now is lying plain flat on the table, might try to put it sideways and things like that? I know from my past experience with the DIR-655 that the angel of the antennas could have a rather big impact on things, also that higher placement of the router the better in terms of range.


I just didn't expect to see that much of a difference between WNDR3700's eight internal antennas, and the WRT320N's three? I know they use different technologies as the Netgear ones are mounted / integrated right into the board, but after all the reviews I've read, most of the using the same wireless NIC that I've got (Intel 5300) I didn't believe it to be this amount of difference between the two.



But it might be that I have a bad unit or something, it's no stress for me getting it replaced by a new one for free so I might try that, it's funny how a college of mine hated the WRT320N, even after getting DD-WRT on it because of unstable and bad wireless experience, and he loves the WNDR3700 (expect for the firmware..) and haven't seen anything providing such range and speeds before, when it's for me the quite opposite experience between the two.

 

[RamGuy]

Okay, some very interesting results right of the bat there..
I tried to flip the router sideways, making the upper part of it facing more towards the living room upstairs and the bottom part towards the bathroom, the results were supposedly better coverage towards the living room considering I got a additional bar on the wireless console right away, that's one more than I've seen before when running the WNDR3700, but when moving to the bathroom the connection actually drops out completely? That's never happened before either.

So by just flipping the WNDR3700 sideways things change quite a bit when it comes to the wireless radius, almost like the antennas are somewhat directional considering the sudden increase of coverage for some areas, and the total lack of coverage the opposite direction?

 

[thiggins]

The WNDR3700's antennas are somewhat directional. NETGEAR told me to position the router vertically and point the front of the router toward the area of desired best coverage.

 

[claykin]

OP

Run the Lenovo System Update tool and make sure you have the latest BIOS, drivers, patches, etc.... If you have a T400 and haven't been running System Update every so often, you may find quite a few new update packages for your T400. Get 'em!

 

[davem]

Hi there,

I have my second WNDR3700 for 4 days now and having quite the same issues - significantly dropped radius in comparison to the AVM Fritz!Box 3130 (b/g) i used before and on top huge problems when using encryption. I returned the first one because of these problems and now it's the same bs.

I have a HP TX2650 with a Broadcom n-draft radio and a HP netbook with a Broadcom b/g radio. With the n-draft radio I'm reaching very good transfer rates of about 160 Mbit (20mbps) directly in front of the router but when I'm just leaving the room, the connections drop to 2-3 mbps at best and after relocating the WNDR several times. At the same position I used the Fritzbox, I completely lost the connection through only two walls. Same problem when using encryption - no matter if WEP, WPA oder WPA2 is used, the transfer rate drops from 20mbps to about 3-4 mbps. The HP netbook's radio doesn't like the WNDR either. With the 3130 I had 5/5 bars in every room in our flat - WNDR only supports up to (!) 3-4 bars... sometime only 2.

Now I don't know what to do next - return it again and try a third one, exchange the radios of both notebooks or exchange the WNDR for a WRT610n. Dlink's DIR-825 that was on my list as well, seems to have the same Atheros wireless chipset so I don't expect an improvement there.

Cheers from Germany
David


Edit:
Encryption speed issues are solved. I just read the n-guide and switched to wpa2-aes - now I reach 15-16 mbps, which is only a little lack compared to the 20mpps without encryption. Radius is still a problem. I just lost connection again at 5GHz in the bedroom (2 walls) and in the living room with direct line of sight (about 3m distance) I only get 4 bars and transfer rate drops a little as well...

 

[IsLNdbOi]

This thread is making me think twice about exchanging my WRT610N for a WNDR3700.

I have my WRT610N wall-mounted in one of my upstairs bedrooms and I get pretty good 5GHz coverage throughout the house except for the living room which is downstairs, on the other side of the house. I was going to try a WNDR3700 to see if I'd get better 5GHz coverage, but if the WNDR3700 is highly directional vs. the WRT610N it's not going to work for me.

 

[davem]

Your posting on the other hand makes me think of buying a WRT610N to check out it's performance in comparison to the WNDR. I think it highly depends on your notebook's internal radio.

 

[IsLNdbOi]

The WNDR3700's antennas are somewhat directional. NETGEAR told me to position the router vertically and point the front of the router toward the area of desired best coverage.

When they say "the front of the router", are they talking about the side with all of the LED indicators?

So wall mounting it (it would be vertically positioned if wall mounted) and facing the side with the LEDs towards the area we're usually in is what we're supposed to do with the WNDR3700?

 

[thiggins]

When they say "the front of the router", are they talking about the side with all of the LED indicators?

Correct.

So wall mounting it (it would be vertically positioned if wall mounted) and facing the side with the LEDs towards the area we're usually in is what we're supposed to do with the WNDR3700?

I would try different positions before I nailed it to a wall.