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Need recommendation on access points (not routers) for townhouse deployment

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StoopidMonkey81

New Around Here
Hi,

I am going to be buying my first townhouse in a couple months and I'm designing my home network in advance so I can wire the place up before the furniture arrives. Since I am opting for a FiOS TV/Internet/Phone bundle I am locked into using their supplied Actiontec router as the primary gateway between my ethernet & coax (set top boxes) networks and the internet. However, I intend on turning off the subpar wireless transmitter and install my own WAPs throughout the house as well as some Cat 6 lines which all would go to an unmanaged gigabit ethernet switch (if I do need to go managed or "Smart", let me know and why).

My current roadblock is deciding which WAP to go with. I can't afford business class PoE WAPs that cost $300+/ea yet the consumer level WAPs that I've seen from Linksys and Netgear seem like underwhelming afterthoughts compared to what their routers offer. So now I'm not even sure if I should purchase a WAP-only device or purchase a router (with its better antenna array) and set it up so that it only acts as an access point. I'll need 3 of them, one for each level of the townhouse so the signal strength doesn't have to be enormous, just strong enough to connect at (near) top speeds throughout the floor with little lag. That said, I could use some recommendations, both in terms of whether I choose a router that I configure as an access point or just a straight up access point, and in terms of brand and model. If there is anything I can answer to help you help me, just ask!

Thanks!
 
You may know that any WiFi "router" can be re-purposed as a WiFi access point. There's a how-to/FAQ here.
 
You may know that any WiFi "router" can be re-purposed as a WiFi access point. There's a how-to/FAQ here.

Thanks stevech! I do realize that but I wasn't sure if it made sense to spend money on routing features when a robust access point is all I really want. If I was sticking with Linksys or Netgear, it would seem that most of the advanced wireless technology was reserved for the routers and their actual WAPs seemed lacking. However I'm starting to look at EnGenius WAPs and they're looking quite nice by comparison.
 
Due to consumer product volumes, WiFi Access Points tend to be much more pricey than WiFi routers.

A WiFi router is essentially an ethernet Switch + WiFi Access point + Router all-in-one.

I've used Engenius outdoor APs. Good.
Engenius is owned by one of the larger chip makers.
 
Yes if you only need AP don't get the Router just for AP. Best you just get the AP with the one point on back.

CISCO Business ones WAP121 and WAP321 (gig port)
NETGEAR Business ones
Some lower cost ones for hotels from Intelli those are $43 and up. Seem popular, but the hardware is not the best though.

You can pick-up E4200V1 then flash DD-WRT on it which has the option to push it into AP or anything else. TX is set to 144 once flash. Runs at 100mW. Signal strength shows 100%. Frankly it cover over 1,500 sq ft but it can't go through cement blocks though then the signal strength drops to 80%. Still better than what you would get from stock firmware.
 
Yes if you only need AP don't get the Router just for AP. Best you just get the AP with the one point on back.

CISCO Business ones WAP121 and WAP321 (gig port)
NETGEAR Business ones
Some lower cost ones for hotels from Intelli those are $43 and up. Seem popular, but the hardware is not the best though.

You can pick-up E4200V1 then flash DD-WRT on it which has the option to push it into AP or anything else. TX is set to 144 once flash. Runs at 100mW. Signal strength shows 100%. Frankly it cover over 1,500 sq ft but it can't go through cement blocks though then the signal strength drops to 80%. Still better than what you would get from stock firmware.

OP just wants a simple AP or common router repurposed as an AP. KISS.

And My usual reminder: WiFi is two-way. Don't just look at the To-Client direction signal strength. The clients' transmitted signal is often the range constraint. A megaWatt router doesn't repair a weak-signal client.
 
OP just wants a simple AP or common router repurposed as an AP. KISS.

And My usual reminder: WiFi is two-way. Don't just look at the To-Client direction signal strength. The clients' transmitted signal is often the range constraint. A megaWatt router doesn't repair a weak-signal client.

Everyone needs for WNAP going to be different as I've seeing what needs are on my end and share what I am doing like your doing too. The OP didnt' want to spend more so I had suggested lower cost way.

WiFi to and from each client sure signal and quality of the link going vary also. Measuring the quality here with the signal operating in HT20 or HT40 depending the other WNAP which are nearby are. That's the key to this puzzle is whose got what next door.

DD-WRT sure it can unlock features in your router. I wasn't going to let the two E - Series just sit and not be used. Cost on those two combine is near $400 bucks. To me whatever works but so far in my results based meraki test results it seems E4200V1 is doing very well here. Sure nothing is perfect and the signal when outside in my patio which has very long cement wall cuts that 100% signal down by 20-22%. RE1000V1 could be use to help bring that signal back-up to 100% only when needed. Those tend to overhead and the go duff on you from my experiences using the two I have..

Below is a sample of the DD-WRT on E4200V1

Wireless

Interface
wl0

RadioRadio is
On

Mode
AP

Network
NG-Mixed

SSID

TIPSTIR-G-N

Channel
9

TX Power
100 mW

Rate
300 Mbps

Wireless Packet Info
Received (RX)
598002 OK, no error

Transmitted (TX)
1949358 OK, 516 errors
 
I can't afford business class PoE WAPs that cost $300+/ea yet the consumer level WAPs that I've seen from Linksys and Netgear seem like underwhelming afterthoughts compared to what their routers offer. So now I'm not even sure if I should purchase a WAP-only device or purchase a router (with its better antenna array) and set it up so that it only acts as an access point.

The more I look at it the more I think that most of the "business class" WAP's are really not that great and that some of the consumer routers have superior performance and features. The Asus RT-N66U has better specs than the current Netgear WNDAP350's I'm, running and it supports IPv6 which the Netgear doesn't (and may never). Add to that the option to use opensource firmware, such as DD-WRT, and I think it's a real winner. And DD-WRT can add "enterprise" features that are missing in some routers, such as logging to syslog.
My guess is that the market for routers is so much larger than the market for access points that some manufacturers figure why bother even making just an access point (Asus did but they don't list one on their website any longer). The switch part of the hardware is incredibly inexpensive and the routing part is just software. Plus any router can be used as just an access point. Economies of scale come into play.
And, it you have the router masquerading as an access point then that device also provides a usable switch (another 3 plus ports generally) that you can plug additional wired devices into as well.
 
It's best to keep all nodes (devices) on dedicated drops (lines) then to daisy chain them. WNAP only have on port on them. The home base wireless router turned into WNAP should not have anything else connected to it port wise than the dedicated drop line connection from the primary switch . Let that WNAP manage it's WClients only.


Router
Switch
WNAP

Network Equipment Manufacturing just starting to get the concept again to make a standalone WNAP. Main router should be wired only they need to go back to that method but making the router do wired, wireless and switching is what they peddle today for the home market.
 
It's best to keep all nodes (devices) on dedicated drops (lines) then to daisy chain them. WNAP only have on port on them. The home base wireless router turned into WNAP should not have anything else connected to it port wise than the dedicated drop line connection from the primary switch . Let that WNAP manage it's WClients only.

I agree that one wouldn't do it for absolute best performance, and that it certainly isn't "best practice", but in many cases it works fine, and is easy to undo (pull the cable out) if it doesn't - no harm, no foul. It might be a bigger mistake to use a WAP or router without a GbE connection.

The drawback is that the bandwith back to the "main" switch is shared (the wireless clients already share it). If you needed maximum unfettered wired speed to that physical point you would certainly run a separate drop from the "main" switch, but as wireless speeds are obviously good enough sharing the switch on the WNAP with a wired device in most home, SOHO (and possibly many small business) environments will most likely be acceptable. It's not like we're daisy chaining a 24 port switch at the point, connecting all of the ports and expecting robust performance (which would be foolhardy).

No extra management costs to the router/WNAP (we aren't using its router, dhcp, etc., services), the wired devices are being managed by the "server" the WNAP is still managing only the wireless clients.

Chris
 
using a router re-purposed as an AP...
WAN port unused since it's not functioning as a router.
All of the LAN ports can be used. These are just a switch.

Nice to have home-run (room-to-central location) for every cat5 cable, but for home use, there will be no degradation if switch ports are used for inter-room runs to reduce amount of cabling to install (including the LAN switch ports on a re-purposed-as-AP router).
 
I agree that one wouldn't do it for absolute best performance, and that it certainly isn't "best practice", but in many cases it works fine, and is easy to undo (pull the cable out) if it doesn't - no harm, no foul. It might be a bigger mistake to use a WAP or router without a GbE connection.

The drawback is that the bandwith back to the "main" switch is shared (the wireless clients already share it). If you needed maximum unfettered wired speed to that physical point you would certainly run a separate drop from the "main" switch, but as wireless speeds are obviously good enough sharing the switch on the WNAP with a wired device in most home, SOHO (and possibly many small business) environments will most likely be acceptable. It's not like we're daisy chaining a 24 port switch at the point, connecting all of the ports and expecting robust performance (which would be foolhardy).

No extra management costs to the router/WNAP (we aren't using its router, dhcp, etc., services), the wired devices are being managed by the "server" the WNAP is still managing only the wireless clients.

Chris

Well true running the WNAP Gig port through Managed Gig Switch shared with other Wired Gig nodes might be better to use the master wired Gig router or off-load the process into another Gig switch dedicated to Gig Por WNAP Only.

Wired Router (DHCP Server)
Gig Switch (un-smart-managed) 1 - desktop PCI-E Gig Nics
Gig Switch (un-smart-managed) 2 - WNAP with Gig Port
Meg Switch (un-smart-managed) 3 - Network Media Players, Network B, IP Camera

Dedicate drop ports for each node on your network. Potential for latency reduction lag tapping into drop to extend connections with too many switches in between your setup.
 
using a router re-purposed as an AP...
WAN port unused since it's not functioning as a router.
All of the LAN ports can be used. These are just a switch.

Nice to have home-run (room-to-central location) for every cat5 cable, but for home use, there will be no degradation if switch ports are used for inter-room runs to reduce amount of cabling to install (including the LAN switch ports on a re-purposed-as-AP router).

I've tested this, there is too much downgrade doing it that way. Leave that router turned into WNAP with disabled DHCP SERVER, NAT, and other firewalls, Blocking ports etc.. should be handled by the primary router. So just leave a dedicated drop line to that Gig Router or Meg Router as WNAP and don't use it's switch ports other than disable the lights on it if you have that option. Also disable the WAN port if you have that option. Belkin Routers have an option to turn the router into AP and takes the guess work out of the picture. Too bad CISCO, Trendnet, TP-LINK an the others don't do the same.
 
Thanks for all the advice! I've been looking around lately and what I think I'm going to do, since I won't be setting up this network for a while, is wait for the newest products from EnGenius and TRENDnet. I'll keep the FiOS router as default with wireless turned off, then plug a Gig-E port from the router to a D-Link DGS-1016D 16-port Gigabit switch (for select hardwired connections to entertainment center, Xbox, etc), then connect another Gig-E router port to a TRENDnet TPE-TG80g 8-port PoE+ switch which will feed 3 EAP600 dual band N WAPs (1 on each floor) and whatever future PoE devices I might get in the future. The WAPs will have DHCP turned off so the FiOS router can deal with that. Does this sound good?
 
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