Newbie needs some help setting up a MoCA network

[Doctego]

I live in a 2 bedroom apartment with Cablevision/Optimum TV & high-speed internet. We currently have digital cable in the living room and both bedrooms and the modem & router are in the living room to be able to hardwire the Roku 2 XS and BD player. I am in the process of purchasing 2 Roku 3 boxes for both bedrooms. I originally had the modem & router in the 2nd bedroom (office) but the wireless range wasn't good enough so I moved them into the living room. I'm worried that having the router in the living room won't be good enough for the bedrooms. I also like to hardwire, whenever possible. That brings me to MoCA. I considered powerline in the past but I think that MoCA will be better. I have a range extender but that doesn't seem to do much. I will have 3 total locations that I would like to have wired internet at. Assuming that MoCA will work for me and is ideal, I'm a little unsure of what I need to get.

I was looking at this:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008EQ4BQG/?tag=snbforums-20

The Netgear unit doesn't seem to be available. Would I still need another adapter even though I currently have all equipment in the living room hardwired directly to the router? If so, I can get this:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008C1JC4O/?tag=snbforums-20

What about a POE filter? Some older posts mentioned that but I'm not sure if newer technology incorporates it.

Lastly, can I use a standard coax splitter at each location to split the cable so that I have 1 wire going to the TV and 1 to the MoCA adapter? I used to work in sales at Comcast and I got a box of splitters as a parting gift. This is the splitter that I have:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001E4OH1E/?tag=snbforums-20

Sorry for the long ramble. Basically, I want to know what equipment I will need including MoCA adapters, POE filters, splitters, or anything else I need.

Please excuse my ignorance. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Doctego]

I don't know how to use the software to draw my configuration but my apartment setup will ideally be like this:

RG-6 coax enters apartment in living room and is split with 1 RG-6 cable going to the living room TV and the other going into the master bedroom. From there, the line is split again, with 1 RG-6 cable going to the TV and the other going to the 2nd bedroom/office. I will have a 3rd TV and the cable modem in the office.

A very simplistic diagram would be like this:

Cable in:
+
+
SPLITTER++++++++++++++BD player, Roku 3 (living room)
+
+
+
+
+
+
SPLITTER++++++++++++++BD player, Roku 3 (master bedroom)
+
+
+
+
+
+
Cable modem, router, PC, Roku 2 XS (2nd bedroom/office)

I apologize in advance for the terrible diagram but + shows the path of the RG-6 coax cable. Each of the locations will need 2 hardwired devices.

I am unaware whether I need to have my cable modem as close to where the cable comes in as possible or if I can put it at the end of my chain. I can put the modem and router wherever is necessary.

 

[Samir]

I haven't read-up completely on MoCA, but did a fair amount when I was considering using it to bridge some distances where there was no Ethernet. Let me answer the best I can.

I believe you should be okay splitting the output, although most of the MoCA boxes I was looking at had connections for other things right on the box, eliminating the splitter. Plus, as you know, the splitter decreases the signal strength.

So what I would do is instead of splitting the cable, simply daisy chain it running it in and out of the various MoCA boxes. I think this should work.

 

[Doctego]

I haven't read-up completely on MoCA, but did a fair amount when I was considering using it to bridge some distances where there was no Ethernet. Let me answer the best I can.

I believe you should be okay splitting the output, although most of the MoCA boxes I was looking at had connections for other things right on the box, eliminating the splitter. Plus, as you know, the splitter decreases the signal strength.

So what I would do is instead of splitting the cable, simply daisy chain it running it in and out of the various MoCA boxes. I think this should work.

Thank you for the response. I know that splitting a signal decreases the signal strength but I don't think that I have an option. Any splitters in my setup will be so as to create 2 outputs from 1. The first output will feed the MoCA adapter at that specific location and the 2nd will feed the next location in my apartment. I only have 1 cable line coming into the apartment.

 

[Samir]

Thank you for the response. I know that splitting a signal decreases the signal strength but I don't think that I have an option. Any splitters in my setup will be so as to create 2 outputs from 1. The first output will feed the MoCA adapter at that specific location and the 2nd will feed the next location in my apartment. I only have 1 cable line coming into the apartment.

I get that part, but if you can run the feeder line to the next location through the MoCA box vs splitting it, your signal should be fine.

The only reason I'm concerned about this is by the time you get to your last leg, you'll have lost over 10db.

 

[Doctego]

That is a concern of mine. When I had my modem and router connected on the last leg of the chain in the past, it worked fine so my fingers are crossed.

I ended up buying 3 of the Actiontec units above. I should have them within a week. I'm trying to figure out what else I need to get so that I can maximize my network. In 2 locations, I am going to have Roku 3's and BD players. I was going to hardwire both at each location but that seems like overkill to me. I don't see any reason why I can't just hardwire the Roku 3's and just connect the ethernet temporarily to the BD players when they need an update. That leaves my office. I need at least 2 hardwired connections (for my PC and Roku). Would something like this suffice?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000BVYT3/?tag=snbforums-20

That would leave a POE filter, if necessary, and possibly some satellite splitters that go up to 2 GHz. I assume that I should replace all splitters on the chain?

I'm sorry to post so many questions but this is all so new to me.

 

[Samir]

I did some reading up on the products you've bought and looked at your diagram again. I think there's two things we need to address.

One, I don't think the MoCAs can be on the cable before the cable modem like how you've outlined it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong because it would be great to know if both those can co-exist on the same wire.

Second, I think you'll have a problem with the cable modem syncing if it's at the very end due to the signal loss via the splitters.

Better to do it this way so you don't have any issues:

Cable in:
+
+
modem and router
| <-- ethernet
MoCA
+
SPLITTER++++++++++++++BD player, Roku 3 (living room)
+
+
+
+
+
+
SPLITTER++++++++++++++BD player, Roku 3 (master bedroom)
+
+
+
+
+
+
PC, Roku 2 XS (2nd bedroom/office)

The only problem with this setup is that you need another MoCA. If the cable modem and MoCA can concurrently exist, you can wire it how you originally planned without an issue. I just don't know if both of those working concurrently on the same wire is possible. Hopefully someone with more experience with this can chime in.

 

[Doctego]

Thanks. Putting the modem and router in the office is just a preference so I don't have to move them. They can stay in the living room if need be.

I obviously like to research things to become familiar with them but, in this case, I'm confusing myself even more. I started looking into diplexers and couldn't wrap my head around how to use them since everything is 1 continuous run. If each room had it's own wall plate, it would be simple.

I'm ready to go buy a spool of cat 6 and fire up the drill.

I appreciate your help.

 

[Samir]

Okay, I did some research on the cable modem/MoCA on same wire issue, and it can be done no problem, so you're okay with your original diagram. (Here's the threads in case you want to read up as there's some other good stuff in them too:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409788/sending-ota-through-moca
http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showthread.php?t=7938)

So we're back to the original issue, which may be signal strength. So here's a more detailed wiring diagram with + for cable and - for ethernet:

Cable in: 
 +
 +		-3.5db
 SPLITTER++++++++++++++MoCA---BD player, Roku 3 (living room)
 +
 + -3.5db
 +		-7db
 SPLITTER++++++++++++++MoCA---BD player, Roku 3 (master bedroom)
 +
 + -7db
 +
 MoCA+++Cable modem---router, PC, Roku 2 XS (2nd bedroom/office)
   |			   |
   -------------------------

I think this setup should work as long as the cable modem syncs. An easy way to try it will be to just hook up the cable modem through two splitters in the same room (cable in to splitter in, splitter out to another splitter in, and then splitter out to cable modem). In fact, you could probably prototype the entire setup in a single room with some short cables so you have a proof of concept. This will be helpful if things don't sync since you don't know if there are any issues with the cables in the walls.

 

[Doctego]

Thank you very much for the information. I'll take a look at those threads.

I finally heard back from Actiontec CS and they told me that, at the location of the modem, I would want something like this so that I create a loop:

Splitter++++Modem----Router
     +                |
     +                |
     +++++++++++++++MoCA

Assuming this is true, I would think that the bottom part of the loop is an output port on the splitter and an input on the MoCA adapter. That way, I can output the MoCA adapter to the TV for video service.

That leaves 2 questions. They told me that my current cable splitters (5-1000MHz) should work. What do you think? I'd like to be proactive and not have to run to Radio Shack and buy 2 GHz splitters for $20 each. They also didn't tell me whether I need a POE filter. I haven't found much recent discussion on them.

Just noticed that there's an amp on the line right where it comes in that was installed by the tech when I moved in.

Thanks again.

 

[Samir]

Thank you very much for the information. I'll take a look at those threads.

I finally heard back from Actiontec CS and they told me that, at the location of the modem, I would want something like this so that I create a loop:

Splitter++++Modem----Router
     +                |
     +                |
     +++++++++++++++MoCA

Assuming this is true, I would think that the bottom part of the loop is an output port on the splitter and an input on the MoCA adapter. That way, I can output the MoCA adapter to the TV for video service.

That leaves 2 questions. They told me that my current cable splitters (5-1000MHz) should work. What do you think? I'd like to be proactive and not have to run to Radio Shack and buy 2 GHz splitters for $20 each. They also didn't tell me whether I need a POE filter. I haven't found much recent discussion on them.

Just noticed that there's an amp on the line right where it comes in that was installed by the tech when I moved in.

Thanks again.

The loop makes sense since I forgot about the coax out in that room.

As far as the splitters. For as cheap as they are, I'd pick some up that are the correct spec. I've learned that a lot of stuff that works when it shouldn't also breaks at some point down the road for what appears to be 'no reason'.

Interesting that I've got an amp there. If it has an adjustable gain, you may be able give the cable modem perfect signal by boosting it a bit. I'm sure it will do nothing but help even if it can't be adjusted.

 

[CaptainSTX]

Shop around for the splitters you need. You should be able to find them on line for $3 - $5 each. They are commonly used in Satellite TV installs.

Trying to make do with what you have is just asking for future problems. When you are replacing splitters make sure all the F-fittings are tight and installed to spec.

 

[Doctego]

Thanks. I just ordered some satellite splitters. Let's hope this mess works.

 

[Samir]

I hope it does too. And if it doesn't, we're here.

 

[Doctego]

Researching MoCA made me think of something about my old DirecTV days. Originally, I had a single LNB dish and decided to try splitting the signal coming off of the dish to 2 receivers. Most channels would freeze unless they were the same or similar channels. Was this a case of me using a standard cable splitter (5-1000 MHz) that didn't pass through the frequency of the satellite signal (>1000 MHz)? I always just assumed that you couldn't split a satellite signal although I did use a multi-switch later on when I had a dual LNB dish.