Asus AiMesh wireless speed query

LexCaia

Occasional Visitor
I am new here and I'm hoping someone has the answer. I currently have two separate wireless AiMesh networks from different RSPs. Each network is on a separate NBN plan. My setup utilises dual band routers (Asus RT-AC86U) and as a result I believe this can reduce the wireless speeds at the satellite node as I do not have a dedicated wireless backhaul. I have noticed that despite this, one of my networks is at full plan speed (100/20) irrespective of whether I connect to the satellite node wirelessly or directly via ethernet whereas my second network (1000/50) actually produces around 600 Mbps wirelessly at the primary router but halves to 250-300 Mbps at the node. I am curious as to why the disparity. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
 

Tech9

Part of the Furniture
The slower 100/20 ISP fits in 250-300Mbps speed to the node and you see no difference. The faster 1000/50 ISP is restricted.
 

LexCaia

Occasional Visitor
The slower 100/20 ISP fits in 250-300Mbps speed to the node and you see no difference. The faster 1000/50 ISP is restricted.
Thank you! Will I be able to theoretically increase the faster 1000/50 ISP speed on the node through a dedicated wireless backhaul? I am considering getting a couple of triband routers (Asus GT-AX-11000) as they come highly rated and also because I need a router that is supported by the Merlin firmware.
 

Tech9

Part of the Furniture
Yes, but much better and reliable option is Ethernet connection between the router and the nodes. And you don't need the "spiders".
 

LexCaia

Occasional Visitor
Yes, but much better and reliable option is Ethernet connection between the router and the
I would if I could but the rooms are far apart and there are walls and doors in between which makes running cables challenging without getting professionals in. I did explore using MoCA adapters as an option but it’s not readily available over here (need to import) and a couple of technicians I have spoken with have not heard of it either! I’m on HFC and suspect it is similar to having cable internet but so far I have not found any official write up over here with most of the examples mainly in North America.
 

Tech9

Part of the Furniture
Careful with Wi-Fi channels availability in your country. Wireless backhaul will need 80MHz wide channel, different than your Wi-Fi channel. In some countries the only option is in DFS range. The backhaul may be affected by radar transmissions around. I would explore all possible Ethernet options first. You may end up spending a lot of money on expensive consumer routers with no guaranteed solution to your wireless throughput problem.
 

LexCaia

Occasional Visitor
Careful with Wi-Fi channels availability in your country. Wireless backhaul will need 80MHz wide channel, different than your Wi-Fi channel. In some countries the only option is in DFS range. The backhaul may be affected by radar transmissions around. I would explore all possible Ethernet options first.
Thanks again for your help. Will try and explore other options as suggested but curious as to whether you have personally heard anything about using coaxial cables (MoCA) as an option?
 

Tech9

Part of the Furniture
MoCA adapters are indeed more popular in North America. I know what the technology is, but I never needed or used such setup.
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
As AiMesh in wireless backhaul mode is effectively a router and a Repeater, the speeds you see are expected. Without going to a fully wired backhaul (all nodes), you will see this drop on the node to varying degrees with any 2 radio/2 band router used as the node(s).

Moving up to AX class routers, you may see much improved speeds and an overall lower latency network as my customers did in the following example.

Report - 2x RT-AX68U upgrade over 2x RT-AC86U in wireless backhaul mode

And note how a properly placed single RT-AX68U provided more coverage, with faster speeds, than 2x RT-AX86U could.

The recommended AX class routers below will give you similar results too in your environment. The RT-AX86U provides the best performance, range, lowest latency, and stability at the lowest price.

Current Order of Recommended Routers Late 2021


Pursuing running cables between the two routers is highly recommended. This will give you the highest quality and farthest-reaching network with the most stability and consistency for the least (router) cost.

Buying current tri-band routers with their gimmicky dual-band radios (whose bands have simply been split) is not a good way forward, IMO.

The highly anticipated GT-AX16000 with 4 bands and 4 radios would be my bet on a highly stable wireless backhaul solution. But you can bet this will be extremely expensive, initially buggy, and not guaranteed to have RMerlin support today.

Running a cable is your best way forward. Whether you pay a professional or do it yourself (or some of both), the benefits will last longer than any wireless backhaul system you can implement today.
 

Tech9

Part of the Furniture
Really appreciated your help today.

Set your realistic goals and be wise. Usually the ISPs bump the speeds for free and some customers spend hundreds of dollars in upgrades to chase the speed increase. Gigabit on Wi-Fi is hard, especially when a repeater is involved. Your wireless node is a repeater. Think about how many devices on your network need or use >300Mbps speeds and what eventual investment return you expect from $1000 in new GT-AX11000 routers. Keep in mind no mobile device needs Gigabit and all Web Browsing experience above 150Mbps speeds is about the same. Don't spend $1000 in speedtest satisfaction. The one benefit of fast internal network is when you use a NAS and you need fast file transfers to/from it.
 

LexCaia

Occasional Visitor
As AiMesh in wireless backhaul mode is effectively a router and a Repeater, the speeds you see are expected. Without going to a fully wired backhaul (all nodes), you will see this drop on the node to varying degrees with any 2 radio/2 band router used as the node(s).

Moving up to AX class routers, you may see much improved speeds and an overall lower latency network as my customers did in the following example.

Report - 2x RT-AX68U upgrade over 2x RT-AC86U in wireless backhaul mode

And note how a properly placed single RT-AX68U provided more coverage, with faster speeds, than 2x RT-AX86U could.

The recommended AX class routers below will give you similar results too in your environment. The RT-AX86U provides the best performance, range, lowest latency, and stability at the lowest price.

Current Order of Recommended Routers Late 2021


Pursuing running cables between the two routers is highly recommended. This will give you the highest quality and farthest-reaching network with the most stability and consistency for the least (router) cost.

Buying current tri-band routers with their gimmicky dual-band radios (whose bands have simply been split) is not a good way forward, IMO.

The highly anticipated GT-AX16000 with 4 bands and 4 radios would be my bet on a highly stable wireless backhaul solution. But you can bet this will be extremely expensive, initially buggy, and not guaranteed to have RMerlin support today.

Running a cable is your best way forward. Whether you pay a professional or do it yourself (or some of both), the benefits will last longer than any wireless backhaul system you can implement today.
Thank you for your detailed response! I did look at the AX86U as a potential replacement but assumed since it is dual band, I would not be able to have a dedicated wireless backhaul. I would love to have ethernet cabling throughout the house....probably should have thought about it 15 years ago when the house was being built! It will be difficult to run wires through the roof and walls now but I thought I would try and get a quote from a registered cabler. I actually love the customisation options of RMerlin and wouldn't be able to get some of the features that I currently use on the Asus stock firmware.
 

LexCaia

Occasional Visitor
Set your realistic goals and be wise. Usually the ISPs bump the speeds for free and some customers spend hundreds of dollars in upgrades to chase the speed increase. Gigabit on Wi-Fi is hard, especially when a repeater is involved. Your wireless node is a repeater. Think about how many devices on your network need or use >300Mbps speeds and what eventual investment return you expect from $1000 in new GT-AX11000 routers. Keep in mind no mobile device needs Gigabit and all Web Browsing experience above 150Mbps speeds is about the same. Don't spend $1000 in speedtest satisfaction. The one benefit of fast internal network is when you use a NAS and you need fast file transfers to/from it.
Thanks Tech9! The gigabit speeds are quite pricy here and I guess a part of me wants to justify paying more for it LOL. You are absolutely right though....although I have a large household with lots of devices connecting to the routers, none of us game and the slower speeds should be more than sufficient for streaming, web browsing etc. I was hoping there was a way to maximise the speeds without outlaying too much. MoCA seemed like the ideal solution but there isn't enough written about that technology over here. There is something called EoC which I think is quite similar but more so in commercial type settings.
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
Keep in mind that you don't need 'cabling throughout the house' right now. And if you do decide to use a professional, do NOT run a single cable to the location you need right now. Run at least 2 cables (or more) to the opposite end of the home (you do not want the WiFi to overlap too much). Multiple cable runs to a single location not only are a form of insurance (against the cable becoming defective over time) but also give you many more options when re-configuring your network as your needs change in the future. For example, you may have the main router at the remote location instead of having the node there.

Here's a couple of links I found since my last post that you may be interested in.

Repeater mode = wireless AiMesh

AiMesh Ideal Placement

Almost all L&LD Links

About L&LD
 

Tech9

Part of the Furniture
part of me wants to justify paying more for it

I have a family of four with usual online work/learn from home activities plus video streaming, about 1.5Tb monthly traffic. I pay for 500Mbps service only because it comes with 30Mbps upload. Cable is the only option so far in my area. Usual traffic doesn't exceed 100Mbps speeds, for days and weeks. You may have to re-think your speed needs and stop paying for something you don't really need or use. I would happily exchange my 500/30 cable line for symmetrical 200/200 fiber service, for example.
 

LexCaia

Occasional Visitor
Keep in mind that you don't need 'cabling throughout the house' right now. And if you do decide to use a professional, do NOT run a single cable to the location you need right now. Run at least 2 cables (or more) to the opposite end of the home (you do not want the WiFi to overlap too much). Multiple cable runs to a single location not only are a form of insurance (against the cable becoming defective over time) but also give you many more options when re-configuring your network as your needs change in the future. For example, you may have the main router at the remote location instead of having the node there.

Here's a couple of links I found since my last post that you may be interested in.

Repeater mode = wireless AiMesh

AiMesh Ideal Placement

Almost all L&LD Links

About L&LD
Thank you for the helpful links and suggestions! I might have more questions once I get a chance to read them in the morning . Really appreciate the help!
 

LexCaia

Occasional Visitor
I have a family of four with usual online work/learn from home activities plus video streaming, about 1.5Tb monthly traffic. I pay for 500Mbps service only because it comes with 30Mbps upload. Cable is the only option so far in my area. Usual traffic doesn't exceed 100Mbps speeds, for days and weeks. You may have to re-think your speed needs and stop paying for something you don't really need or use. I would happily exchange my 500/30 cable line for symmetrical 200/200 fiber service, for example.
I don’t have many options with the type of service I have access to. HFC is the only service at my premises and aside from 100/40 option, if I need a faster upload the next one is 1000/50. I can achieve 950+ Mbps directly through the router, with Wi-Fi speeds achieving the optimum speeds being my main issue. However we connect 99% of our devices that way. I prefer a higher upload only because we have a hybrid model or working some days in the week from home. I guess I want to ensure we can achieve the speeds we are paying for. It is definitely something I do think about - our requirements vs. it’ll be great to have……or rather paying for something we don’t really need.
 

Tech9

Part of the Furniture
However we connect 99% of our devices that way.
I guess I want to ensure we can achieve the speeds we are paying for.

Most common clients have 2-stream AC radios. Even if you upgrade the routers to AX with dedicated backhaul, the speed to single client won't exceed 600Mbps in ideal conditions due to client limitations. What you can get is up to 600Mbps from the repeater as well (the wireless node) due to much higher throughput backhaul. RT-AX86S routers have the same radios as popular RT-AX86U. Two in wireless AiMesh may give you what you want even with shared backhaul. I mean, you don't really need "3-band" (3-radio) routers. How well the setup is going to work depends on channels available bandwidth. Busy networks around you will lower your system's performance. 2x AX86S cost significantly less than 2x AX11000.
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
The recommended list of routers in Post 10 (note: all are AX routers) will be able to push even 2 stream AC clients to their maximum throughput and lowest latency levels.

No AC class router today can touch them. Even if both AC and AX class routers may not be able to give you full 1Gbps ISP paid for speeds in any specific wireless environment.
 

LexCaia

Occasional Visitor
Most common clients have 2-stream AC radios. Even if you upgrade the routers to AX with dedicated backhaul, the speed to single client won't exceed 600Mbps in ideal conditions due to client limitations. What you can get is up to 600Mbps from the repeater as well (the wireless node) due to much higher throughput backhaul. RT-AX86S routers have the same radios as popular RT-AX86U. Two in wireless AiMesh may give you what you want even with shared backhaul. I mean, you don't really need "3-band" (3-radio) routers. How well the setup is going to work depends on channels available bandwidth. Busy networks around you will lower your system's performance. 2x AX86S cost significantly less than 2x AX11000.
From what I read so far, I thought I had to have a dedicated wireless backhaul to achieve the speeds I saw from my primary router. Thanks for clarifying this for me as these routers are definitely a significant saving compared to the AX-11000! The AX-92X are on sale right now but aren’t supported by RMerlin which is a pity as I noticed these are also very popular routers. Thanks again for your help!
 

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