AC3200 worth the upgrade from AC87U?

[Spencer1990]

As the title says is the AC3200 worth the upgrade from AC87U? I have 100/30 internet and about 4 5ghz devices and 10 2.4ghz devices. Also my house is 4000sqft and on 2 acres if that helps at all. Thanks

 

[jerry6]

are you having problems with the 87 ? Do you notice big drops in performance when you have a few clients doing high impact tasks like streaming video and big file transfers at the same time ? I notice my AC 66 handle streaming a few clients and large file transfers at the same time , I 'm hoping the extra cpu power and radios will help , I think it is a better solution than the 87 , at least right now .

 

[RMerlin]

The RT-AC3200 is not an upgrade to the RT-AC87U. It's a different product, that fulfills different needs. Its multiple radios are an improvement for people with a lot of different wireless devices, but it's a downgrade for people who are looking forward to using a 4x4 desktop client for higher throughput (the RT-AC3200 is only a 3x3 router).

 

[InspectHerGadget]

I think people should wait at least a few months to see how it all pans out. As Merlin says that they are different products. The Smart Connect that allows switching of devices to the best performing adapter at the time, while generally works well, it isn't without it's problems. The problem being all these smart devices require clients that can quickly jump from one wireless adapter to the other one seamlessly. If they don't then people will just disable it.

The other point is whether 4x4 clients will become available, when and whether you'll be interested in the products that they are in. The only 3x3 laptop for instance is a MacBook Pro while my Surface Pro 3 is 2x2.

I have the AC87 for less than a week and I'm still making up my mind whether it is what I want or not. Much cheaper devices are probably all most people need and the extra money is just wasted on what really is a toy to play with.

I do like the parental controls and the built in protection. To me this is where the Asus products are way ahead of the Netgear. These are very useful additions.

 

[cmillar6]

I think people should wait at least a few months to see how it all pans out. As Merlin says that they are different products. The Smart Connect that allows switching of devices to the best performing adapter at the time, while generally works well, it isn't without it's problems. The problem being all these smart devices require clients that can quickly jump from one wireless adapter to the other one seamlessly. If they don't then people will just disable it.

The other point is whether 4x4 clients will become available, when and whether you'll be interested in the products that they are in. The only 3x3 laptop for instance is a MacBook Pro while my Surface Pro 3 is 2x2.

I have the AC87 for less than a week and I'm still making up my mind whether it is what I want or not. Much cheaper devices are probably all most people need and the extra money is just wasted on what really is a toy to play with.

I do like the parental controls and the built in protection. To me this is where the Asus products are way ahead of the Netgear. These are very useful additions.

Could not agree more. How are temperatures on your AC87? This is what is making me bypass the AC87, waiting for reviews on the 3200.

 

[InspectHerGadget]

I haven't measured temps but processors can run up to 90C without issues. Processors will also shutdown to protect themselves if temps get too high. I think it is a non issue.

The real issue is MU-MIMO isn't supported yet by any client radios so the modem might die of old age before these devices are available.

The RT-3200 offers two 5GHz access points and smart connect to switch between them but may cause issues as it switches.

 

[reddevil0728]

The RT-AC3200 is not an upgrade to the RT-AC87U. It's a different product, that fulfills different needs. Its multiple radios are an improvement for people with a lot of different wireless devices, but it's a downgrade for people who are looking forward to using a 4x4 desktop client for higher throughput (the RT-AC3200 is only a 3x3 router).

Can you help me understand this in a more layman's terms.

So you are saying 3200 > 87 when you have many different wireless devices whether they are on 5ghz or 2.4ghz? How many is many?

Also what do you mean by "4x4 desktop client"?

 

[RMerlin]

Can you help me understand this in a more layman's terms.

So you are saying 3200 > 87 when you have many different wireless devices whether they are on 5ghz or 2.4ghz? How many is many?

Also what do you mean by "4x4 desktop client"?

I recommend doing some reading on SmallNetBuilder. Tim has a very complete article here explaining the main differences between both architectures:

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...s-xstream-the-coming-battle-for-wi-fi-airtime

 

[reddevil0728]

I recommend doing some reading on SmallNetBuilder. Tim has a very complete article here explaining the main differences between both architectures:

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...s-xstream-the-coming-battle-for-wi-fi-airtime

Alright thanks. Will give it a read

 

[reddevil0728]

I recommend doing some reading on SmallNetBuilder. Tim has a very complete article here explaining the main differences between both architectures:

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...s-xstream-the-coming-battle-for-wi-fi-airtime

I have taken a look at the article, and I am still quite confused.

So from what I understand and correct me if I am wrong.

So AC3200 and AC2350/2400 are basically 2 different technology.

AC3200 is older and proven technology while AC2350/2400 is a newer technology.

I don't quite get what's 1x1 or 3x3 or 4x4 client.

And client meaning like a "device" like a phone is a client, a laptop is a client?

 

[L&LD]

AC3200 is basically just one 2.4GHz radio and two 5GHz radios that are supposed to be used in such a way that the connected devices, yes clients, don't slow others down.

AC2350 is not newer technology, yet. At this point all we have are 4 antennae connections possible, with the missing in action; 3x3 and 4x4 clients, but we will eventually have MU-MIMO too when that is enabled in firmware. What MU-MIMO offers wireless is the equivalent of going from a network Hub to a Switch, at least on the download side of the equation. This will greatly increase wireless responsiveness with many MU-MIMO enabled clients.

And that is what the three radio AC3200 routers offer today. Increasing the responsiveness of the overall network by logically segregating similarly capable clients to a single radio.


I myself feel that this is a waste of resources and money at the prices they are asking. Getting two routers instead would accomplish the same thing and give a better result for less money too. Of course, when the firmware gets fixed and the assignment to one radio or another is eventually bulletproof, this is a reason to get a single device instead of manually configuring two to do the same thing. But I really believe this will never happen.

AC3200 is a little gimmicky for what it offers today. And for the current asking prices, it is just a side street to what the real advances are heading for AC class routers and beyond.

 

[reddevil0728]

AC3200 is basically just one 2.4GHz radio and two 5GHz radios that are supposed to be used in such a way that the connected devices, yes clients, don't slow others down.

AC2350 is not newer technology, yet. At this point all we have are 4 antennae connections possible, with the missing in action; 3x3 and 4x4 clients, but we will eventually have MU-MIMO too when that is enabled in firmware. What MU-MIMO offers wireless is the equivalent of going from a network Hub to a Switch, at least on the download side of the equation. This will greatly increase wireless responsiveness with many MU-MIMO enabled clients.

And that is what the three radio AC3200 routers offer today. Increasing the responsiveness of the overall network by logically segregating similarly capable clients to a single radio.


I myself feel that this is a waste of resources and money at the prices they are asking. Getting two routers instead would accomplish the same thing and give a better result for less money too. Of course, when the firmware gets fixed and the assignment to one radio or another is eventually bulletproof, this is a reason to get a single device instead of manually configuring two to do the same thing. But I really believe this will never happen.

AC3200 is a little gimmicky for what it offers today. And for the current asking prices, it is just a side street to what the real advances are heading for AC class routers and beyond.

What exactly is a 3x3 or 4x4 client?

 

[L&LD]

A client with the ability to connect to a router with 3 or 4 antennae and 3 or 4 streams.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...-classification-system-for-wifi-products-2015


An AC3200 router cannot be nominally faster than any 'normal' AC1900 device for example.

But an AC2350/2400 router with a similarly capable client can hit faster rates because it is using an extra antennae and an additional stream.

 

[RMerlin]

Oversplimfying it (BTW if someone knows of a good primer here on SNB, feel free to point to it):

A client is any device that connects to your router: computer, laptop, phone, tablet, etc...

Modern wireless work by having multiple concurrent radio connections between the computer and the router. In the case of 802.11ac, each "connection" (called a "stream") is 433 Mbits.

A 1x1 client only has one antenna, and will only connect with one stream, for a max speed of 433 Mbits.

A 2x2 client: 866 Mbits.

The 5 GHz on the RT-AC3200 is 3x3 (three streams, three antennas). That means a maximum speed per connected computer of 1300 Mbps.

The RT-AC87U supports 4x4, for a max speed of 1700 Mbps. However no wireless card exists yet with support for 4 streams.

Typically, mobile devices such as phones and tablet are only 1x1. Last year, 2x2 tablets and phones started to appear on the market (my Nexus 9 for instance is one that can connect at 866 Mbps).

That's why, in real life, the AC3200 is not an upgrade, neither a downgrade to the AC87U: it's a side-step, where it has some benefits, but lacks some of the AC87U advantages. For some people the AC3200 is better suited to their needs, for others it's the AC87U.

 

[reddevil0728]

Oversplimfying it (BTW if someone knows of a good primer here on SNB, feel free to point to it):

A client is any device that connects to your router: computer, laptop, phone, tablet, etc...

Modern wireless work by having multiple concurrent radio connections between the computer and the router. In the case of 802.11ac, each "connection" (called a "stream") is 433 Mbits.

A 1x1 client only has one antenna, and will only connect with one stream, for a max speed of 433 Mbits.

A 2x2 client: 866 Mbits.

The 5 GHz on the RT-AC3200 is 3x3 (three streams, three antennas). That means a maximum speed per connected computer of 1300 Mbps.

The RT-AC87U supports 4x4, for a max speed of 1700 Mbps. However no wireless card exists yet with support for 4 streams.

Typically, mobile devices such as phones and tablet are only 1x1. Last year, 2x2 tablets and phones started to appear on the market (my Nexus 9 for instance is one that can connect at 866 Mbps).

That's why, in real life, the AC3200 is not an upgrade, neither a downgrade to the AC87U: it's a side-step, where it has some benefits, but lacks some of the AC87U advantages. For some people the AC3200 is better suited to their needs, for others it's the AC87U.

ok so from the little I understand, am I right to conclude "crudely" that if I have different devices of different "currency" (some maybe old some maybe new) AC3200 will be more suited for me since those clients usually only have 1x1 and rarely 2x2 and it allows me to group my slower devices together as it has multiple radio.

While if I am at the forefront of technology, constantly chasing the newest gadgets and have the latest desktop which is usually more likely to have 4x4, I should get AC87?

 

[L&LD]

ok so from the little I understand, am I right to conclude "crudely" that if I have different devices of different "currency" (some maybe old some maybe new) AC3200 will be more suited for me since those clients usually only have 1x1 and rarely 2x2 and it allows me to group my slower devices together as it has multiple radio.

While if I am at the forefront of technology, constantly chasing the newest gadgets and have the latest desktop which is usually more likely to have 4x4, I should get AC87?

No, not quite right.

The number of streams and or antennae is not what makes different devices slow or fast. It is the Class of the device that determines that. AC class devices being the best right now, followed by N class devices all the way to the beginning of consumer wireless with the B class being the slowest of all.

The number of antennae is not the differentiator, the spread and number of devices across all the different classes that you have or allow to connect to your network is.

 

[RMerlin]

While if I am at the forefront of technology, constantly chasing the newest gadgets and have the latest desktop which is usually more likely to have 4x4, I should get AC87?

There isn't a single wireless card that does 4x4 yet, and no manufacturer has any solid ETA as to when one will become available.

 

[sm00thpapa]

As the title says is the AC3200 worth the upgrade from AC87U? I have 100/30 internet and about 4 5ghz devices and 10 2.4ghz devices. Also my house is 4000sqft and on 2 acres if that helps at all. Thanks

Go with an AC1900 or AC3200 router at this time. With a 4,000 sq foot home you may need an AP, homeplug or MOCA to extend your network.

As many have said all 4x4 routers are no better than an AC1900 right now.

 

[InspectHerGadget]

AC3200 is basically just one 2.4GHz radio and two 5GHz radios that are supposed to be used in such a way that the connected devices, yes clients, don't slow others down.

AC3200 is a little gimmicky for what it offers today. And for the current asking prices, it is just a side street to what the real advances are heading for AC class routers and beyond.

I agree although buying the AC87, while more future proof is also an exercise in crystal ball gazing. How soon will these devices be available? Will they work as they hope they do? Will there ever be 4x4 devices? I mean 3x3 has been around for a while and only the MacBook Pro uses it evidently.

Knowing what I know now but not prior to getting the AC87, I would have gotten a cheaper router even though it is a nice toy to have.

These new devices are also full of bugs which people like Merlin are helping Asus to solve. I suppose in time they will be more reliable but I predict another round of major bug fixing required once these MU-MIMO devices are actually attempting to connect.

 

[reddevil0728]

No, not quite right.

The number of streams and or antennae is not what makes different devices slow or fast. It is the Class of the device that determines that. AC class devices being the best right now, followed by N class devices all the way to the beginning of consumer wireless with the B class being the slowest of all.

The number of antennae is not the differentiator, the spread and number of devices across all the different classes that you have or allow to connect to your network is.

Actually I am really not sure which of it fits my usage best. Is there like a simple way of putting it?

Like for me I have many devices of various "currency" (some old some new), and not always at the forefront of technology, but also want something fast.

There isn't a single wireless card that does 4x4 yet, and no manufacturer has any solid ETA as to when one will become available.

so AC87 is more future proof, IN THE EVENT that a 4x4 client is available.

But talking about things that are currently available, is it possible to compare AC87 and AC3200 in a like for like comparison? or they still have their own pros and cons depending on what you want to use it for?

I agree although buying the AC87, while more future proof is also an exercise in crystal ball gazing. How soon will these devices be available? Will they work as they hope they do? Will there ever be 4x4 devices? I mean 3x3 has been around for a while and only the MacBook Pro uses it evidently.

Knowing what I know now but not prior to getting the AC87, I would have gotten a cheaper router even though it is a nice toy to have.

These new devices are also full of bugs which people like Merlin are helping Asus to solve. I suppose in time they will be more reliable but I predict another round of major bug fixing required once these MU-MIMO devices are actually attempting to connect.

Actually when talking about bugs, are the bugs people referring to involves not being able to attain max speed but still decent for people who are looking at normal usage or we are talking about intermittent disconnection here?