Router or firmware limited latency?

[element72]

Hi SNB community!

I have been running Tomato firmware for awhile on my old Asus RT-N10P. I didn't have problems while
gaming before, but I noticed my new roommate it causing spikes in the IP traffic graph, and it is actually affecting game latency a little bit. I noticed microstutters in game that are correlated with the spikes. I don't think I had this problem before in the past. If the spikes were just a flat constant on the graph, I would have no latency issues; I hope that better describes what is going on.

I am also using bandwidth limiter and not QoS, because I find it troublesome to google the ports for the games I play. I am the only one connected via ethernet and everyone else is on wireless.

I am willing to try anything, such as purchasing a better router, or flashing a new firmware.

 

[System Error Message]

with a bandwidth limiter when the bandwidth limit is reached the latency increases. With QoS however some packets get increased latency some dont depending on things like priority and configuration

Use both.

 

[element72]

with a bandwidth limiter when the bandwidth limit is reached the latency increases. With QoS however some packets get increased latency some dont depending on things like priority and configuration

Use both.

The limit is not reached with the spikes. Someone suggested to me to put the gaming setup or wireless network on a separate vlan. I will try that.

 

[System Error Message]

ah you game on wireless. on wifi high traffic causes latency spikes and increased latency. Using a vlan doesnt help either. The best thing you can do is have 2 different radios, one for gaming and one for other stuff. For example have the 5Ghz one for yourself.

You should be gaming on ethernet instead.

 

[element72]

ah you game on wireless. on wifi high traffic causes latency spikes and increased latency. Using a vlan doesnt help either. The best thing you can do is have 2 different radios, one for gaming and one for other stuff. For example have the 5Ghz one for yourself.

You should be gaming on ethernet instead.

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you. I am gaming on ethernet. The guy suggested I put the wireless network and my gaming pc on separate vlans.

 

[System Error Message]

oh that would not help. The issue of latency as you experienced is really just to do with that there are no priority to the packets. so when someone starts download a lot for example than there are more packets in que for the processor to handle so it takes longer to process them all.

The whole point of QoS with priority is that higher priority packets get processed first, so this keeps their latency low and gives them more bandwidth. Your router is very old so the CPU is much slower, the more packets there are the more time it needs.

 

[element72]

oh that would not help. The issue of latency as you experienced is really just to do with that there are no priority to the packets. so when someone starts download a lot for example than there are more packets in que for the processor to handle so it takes longer to process them all.

The whole point of QoS with priority is that higher priority packets get processed first, so this keeps their latency low and gives them more bandwidth. Your router is very old so the CPU is much slower, the more packets there are the more time it needs.

So even if bandwidth limiter is doing its job correctly, I will still experience the same microstutters with a new modern router? Unless I combine BW limiter with QoS, correct?

The guy that suggested separate vlans, uses that method because he was experiencing the same issue, but not because of bandwidth hogging, but because of all the devices connected to his wifi. In essence, he had his xbox one on a separate vlan, and all his other devices on another vlan.

 

[System Error Message]

that is correct, higher load on the line will cause increased latency, this is called bufferbloat. good QoS will eliminate it for the traffic you want.

In the case for that guy if everyone is using wifi than there needs to be a way to prioritise clients. Some new wifi routers have that and he used vlans as that isolated traffic in the sense of making the AP divide attention better as it does not give all clients equal air time (you have clients of different speeds, different traffic).

some newer consumer routers also have auto QoS too that uses priority based QoS as thats compatible with hardware acceleration.

fq_codel is a really good QoS method, currently ubiquiti employs it but the ERL will only do 100Mb/s while running QoS. Its definitely an option to consider if your internet does not exceed 100Mb/s and you just use your current router as an AP.

Try to solve the issue by using priority based QoS instead on your current router first.

 

[element72]

that is correct, higher load on the line will cause increased latency, this is called bufferbloat. good QoS will eliminate it for the traffic you want.

In the case for that guy if everyone is using wifi than there needs to be a way to prioritise clients. Some new wifi routers have that and he used vlans as that isolated traffic in the sense of making the AP divide attention better as it does not give all clients equal air time (you have clients of different speeds, different traffic).

some newer consumer routers also have auto QoS too that uses priority based QoS as thats compatible with hardware acceleration.

fq_codel is a really good QoS method, currently ubiquiti employs it but the ERL will only do 100Mb/s while running QoS. Its definitely an option to consider if your internet does not exceed 100Mb/s and you just use your current router as an AP.

Try to solve the issue by using priority based QoS instead on your current router first.

Is it ok if I delete every class in the QoS. And then set it up like I have in BW limiter? I would create a dst ip and src ip for my PC. And set it as the highest priority. Then create a class for everything else with normal priority?

 

[System Error Message]

that could work.

 

[coxhaus]

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you. I am gaming on ethernet. The guy suggested I put the wireless network and my gaming pc on separate vlans.

I agree with the above. And to take it one step farther or to make it better is to run your router from a separate network VLAN. If your router is on a network VLAN with any other devices as those devices talk and broadcast on your network your router waits for them to finish talking once they have their turn. You need to isolate your router so it is the only device communicating on it's network. This will reduce the lag the most when it is setup this way. It may not be an easy setup but it is the best.

 

[element72]

I agree with the above. And to take it one step farther or to make it better is to run your router from a separate network VLAN. If your router is on a network VLAN with any other devices as those devices talk and broadcast on your network your router waits for them to finish talking once they have their turn. You need to isolate your router so it is the only device communicating on it's network. This will reduce the lag the most when it is setup this way. It may not be an easy setup but it is the best.

Ok, I got everything to work. I set the whole new vlan as normal priority in BW limter. And myself being the only one on the original vlan, I set it to higher priority. Will this work in effect? Will I have higher priority over the hosts in the other vlan, despite us being on different vlans?

P.S. The priority difference between 2 vlans doesn't seem to work in effect. As I was watching an HD stream on my desktop (ethernet host), there was no inbound drop on my laptop as I tested the speed.

 

[coxhaus]

My idea was to isolate the router from the local network traffic so only internet bound traffic communicates on the router network VLAN. Windows PCs talk to each all the time as well as other devices. As they communicate the router waits when it is sharing a network VLAN with other devices.

Isolating wireless is a good idea as it is a much slower communication than wired connections. This keeps the wired device from waiting on the slow wireless devices.

 

[element72]

My idea was to isolate the router from the local network traffic so only internet bound traffic communicates on the router network VLAN. Windows PCs talk to each all the time as well as other devices. As they communicate the router waits when it is sharing a network VLAN with other devices.

Isolating wireless is a good idea as it is a much slower communication than wired connections. This keeps the wired device from waiting on the slow wireless devices.

I think I figured it out. I have to remove myself from the ip list and just use the default (the whole vlan). I think the BW limit priority difference between the vlans can be work in effect if I used "Default Class for unlisted MAC / IP's in LAN (br0)" instead of "Bandwidth Limiter for LAN (br0)"

Edit: nevermind. didn't change lol

 

[element72]

I would like to note, just in case anyone comes across this old thread, isolating the network via vlans helped a lot. I have not seen any stutters so far.

 

[jonkul]

Thanks, I'll look into this!