Updating from RT AC1900P to RT AC86U ...worth it?

[tyreman]

Any real advantage to changing/upgrade
to the AC86U from the AC1900P
AC86U has newer chip ...Broadcom, more ram and processor

Thanks in advance

 

[RMerlin]

CPU has hardware accelerated AES, which will greatly enhance OpenVPN performance.

USB sharing performance is also a bit better.

 

[Val D.]

AC86U has newer chip ...Broadcom, more ram and processor

And better more sensitive radios, offering higher throughput on same distances.

 

[CaptainSTX]

If you don't plan to run VPN clients or don't need any higher than 50 Mbps download speed when using the VPN client then the AC1900P is built on the very reliable AC68 platform and has proven its reliability and has significantly fewer complaints/issues from purchasers than the AC86. (Amazon 1 Star AC68 = 13% AC86 = 28% )

As for the radios having used both the range and performance seems the same to me. The 5 Ghz radio on the AC86 occasionally disappears and requires a router reboot. Never had this issue with either of my AC1900Ps.

 

[Val D.]

As for the radios having used both the range and performance seems the same to me.

I would trust more to people who actually tested the performance:
https://www.snbforums.com/threads/86u-vs-68u-wifi-throughput.42754/

The 5 Ghz radio on the AC86 occasionally disappears and requires a router reboot.

No, this is definitely not typical for RT-AC86U. After few routers RMA for no reason due to configuration errors and running early Alpha custom firmware versions on a network with undisclosed "security" restrictions - no wonder you personally had multiple issues.

Any real advantage to changing/upgrade

It depends what you need the router for and what value this upgrade will bring to you. If you have slower ISP connection with 10-15 WiFi devices with average traffic requirements and close to the router, then even your current RT-AC1900P is more than what you actually need.

 

[CaptainSTX]

You love your AC86s great. But a lot of people don't love them as much as you do. You are delusional if you think all the problems with the AC86 are operator error. Almost twice as many people have had problems with this router versus other roughly comparable routers. From a marketing stand point hard it is hard to sell a product if people don't like it regardless if it is bad product or if it attracts customers who can't make it work reliably.

The AC86 is a good buy if you need the processing power it offers otherwise consider something else.

 

[Val D.]

You are delusional if you think all the problems with the AC86 are operator error.

Not all the problems, but most of yours definitely are. I don’t even know why you rush to express an opinion on a product you struggled to configure properly for a very long time. You should be reading more, not writing.

 

[Grisu]

You should be reading more, not writing.

This should apply to you.

 

[Val D.]

This should apply to you.

This should apply to everyone. I did indeed read all the reviews of RT-AC86U on Amazon, the ones @CaptainSTX relies on so much. If one looks closely, it's not hard to see the total score is an aggregate of the product sold by different sellers in different times. This is what is Amazon doing for many products. Some people mention short return conditions, some mention re-manufactured units, some mention the product was even holding some previous settings... when you read something like this what it tells you? Some people left low rating because it was hard to configure, some tried to use it as ISP equipment replacement and it didn't work. Again, if really 30% of all units have defects, why is ASUS not discontinuing the product? Such a high % failure rate means business loss and damaged company name. Why are they continue selling it?

I personally don't like the product because of many reasons, but in some use cases it's better than what competition offers for the money you pay. You can see what I write about it in different threads. In one I recommend it, in another I'm strongly against it. It all depends what it is going to be used for. It has its strengths and weaknesses. Mentioning its weaknesses only in every single thread someone asks about it just because I had bad experience with it and throwing in a questionable information source... that's wrong and unprofessional. What I fight for is correct representation of the facts. @L&LD says he installed about 100 units, I did myself about 12 (my customers are different, not too many consumer products). Why we don't see 30% failure rate? Are we the most lucky people in the world? I never had a single hardware defect with this product. Software issues - yes, but ASUS is working on it.

 

[CaptainSTX]

Not all the problems, but most of yours definitely are. I don’t even know why you rush to express an opinion on a product you struggled to configure properly for a very long time. You should be reading more, not writing.

You continue to misrepresent my experience with my AC86. The first new unit that I purchased in early 2019 but manufactured in 2018 failed after a couple of months. ASUS then sent me multiple reconditioned units which IMHO were not tested and were duds sometimes right out of the box. ASUS finally relented and sent me a new unit manufactured in 2019 which with Merlin 14 beta runs very well but is not as reliably as either of the AC1900Ps I have set up. I continue to use my AC86 as I run multiple VPN clients and the AES-NI makes a huge difference in throughput. The faster VPN speeds in my use case offsets the fact that the router occasionally needs to be rebooted, however I would not install an AC86 in my son's home as I provide tech support for him and he is easily frustrated so having an AC1900P is a better choice for him as it just works and keeps on working day in day out.

Finally as I have explained, the same settings I use on the AC86 run very well on an old N66 (No Skynet) and my AC1900P and the AC1900P I gave my son. There is nothing wrong with the way I set up my router. (2 VPN clients, VPN server, Skynet, SPDMerlin & uptime along with two guest networks) All the extra WifI enhancements are off and fixed channels are used so there isn't anything that should impact WiFi's reliability.

Even if you choose to ignore the 1 star reviews on this router look at the 5 star reviews. The AC86 gets just 53% vs 70% for the AC68. If your goal as a company is to meet or exceed your customers expectations ASUS hasn't done as good of job with this router as it did with either the N66 or AC68 nor as well as TP-Link or Netgear do with their routers.

Perhaps with the support you & L&LD provide to your clients accounts for them having a better experience with the AC86 than other purchasers. Do you set up the people you support using just the basic router's features or do you add VPNs and scripts which are the reason many readers on this forum bought this router to do when running Merlin's enhanced firmware?

In any case hopefully the AC86s manufactured in 2019 are more reliable and more durable and customers experience with them will improve. Time will tell as the 2018 units with issues are taken out of service.

 

[Grisu]

@Val D. Fully comply with your last posting!

It's very different what you often write in other places.
My only problem is that you often wont accept that failures with 86U are not always sitting right behind the keyboard.

I think that most problems are firmware or driver related and not because of bad hardware or even sitting much deeper in CFE/bootloader!
That because of the very different chipset compared to previous routers and different implementation of CFE (double boot option).
For me even possible that bad firmware/CFE is going to break hardware, some wrong (forgotten or hidden) settings while upgrade and Wifi has gone for good, there are some reporting exactly like this.

And for me it seems that they got different CFE in each region and/or hardware release, but we cant see it to verify like it has been possible with their older routers.
So its possible that in your region they behave better than maybe in EU or rest of the world.
Same we can see with Asus on other routers not using the usual broadcom chipset, 87U is often reported to be troublesome (2nd LAN), Blue Cave too.

I recommend 86U too often, because of the good value for the price and VPN support. On slower lines <100Mb/s or no need for VPN I would prefer the very reliable and cheap 68U/66U_B1 with update in some years when we have more AX clients and cheaper routers.
Where we have differences are about "better" wifi chips, I never saw them any faster or with better coverage. I rely on what I see and not what has been tested anywhere else.

Maybe we all should do much more regionalized Wifi-support as buildings, regulation and Asus implementation is too different for worldwide statements - just a few words to think about!

Have a nice day!

 

[L&LD]

@CaptainSTX, yes, I do provide full service for my customers including setting up OpenVPN clients and servers for their use. Where appropriate (per customer) I also introduce and install scripts to many of them. But I don't offer continuing support for those scripts though.

It is interesting that when I did decide to test out an RT-AC86U in my own environment it was well into 2019. Maybe that is why I and all my customers haven't had deal-breaking issues with them.

With regards to the slower ISP connections and a 'powerful' router, I find that most people can tell their network is greatly improved by the RT-AC86U, even on lines as slow as 15/5 down/up. They spend much more than they expected initially, but they appreciate their limited ISP speeds fully and know that when they do upgrade, their router will be more than capable of the task.

I feel another reason why I have such low issues is that every person that buys something from me (or just wants me to install/set it up for them) I make a point of also having them buy a good quality UPS with it too. About 60% of all my customers are running their networks with a dedicated UPS for their networks. Really cuts down troubleshooting gremlins that a reboot usually fixes or worse; only half-killing a device from a power surge (or worse; a brownout condition) that a quality UPS should protect against.

I don't make commissions on hardware btw, I just like giving the best experience I can for each person I help.

 

[CaptainSTX]

I have been a firm believer in UPSs and have used for ten years finding as you have that they solve or prevent many issues. All my network equipment is currently powered through an UPS.

I also have a surge protector on the coaxial cable coming into my home and a gig rated surge protector on the Ethernet cable coming out of my cable modem. Lots of lightning in the area where I live so you can't be to careful. In case that should fail I have an old modem and router ready to put on line. Keep the firmware up to date and settings on both of them matched as closely as possible with my production equipment.

 

[Val D.]

Guys, first let's be more realistic. The world around us is not black and white only. We are trying to help other people here and this is the main purpose of this forum. Every time someone mentions this specific router RT-AC86U, @CaptainSTX paints everything in black, @L&LD paints everything in white. I believe we all know well what this product is and what is the target market for it. It's not good for paperweight only, but it's not the best router available either. @CaptainSTX posts sound like a hate rand, @L&LD posts sound like he has never seen anything better than RT-AC86U. How is this helping a new user here on SNB? Is this forum divided on haters and fanboys? Are we haters and fanboys? People come here for "professional" or "expert" advice. So, let's be a bit more professional than! Can we at least try do that from now on?

To make things clear, I personally don't support anything. I'm a hardware guy. If I run a software on something, I do it for the sole purpose of hardware testing. In my world the word "custom" cancels warranties. Every single piece of equipment is evaluated with manufacturer provided software or project lead approved one. No exceptions, no choice. Otherwise there is no support. This is the only right way to approach consumer products also. Does it work out of the box? - Yes/No. Does it do what is says it does? - Yes/No. But it works better with DD-WRT, OpenWRT, Tomato, Potato... I don't care. But something doesn't work with DD-WRT, OpenWRT, Tomato, Potato... I don't care. 99% of the equipment I deal with works with official software on it. Let the manufacturers do the support, if needed. This particular router RT-AC86U runs pretty well with manufacturer provided software. But someone wants to run 5 VPN servers on it with 20 scripts, or use it as a heating device... as a result something happened... that's his problem. Custom software = no grounds to complain against the product. This is not the same product anymore.

 

[Val D.]

I just like giving the best experience I can for each person I help.

You are pushing too much in direction what you think is best. This is not necessary. Your personal setup is definitely not the best for everyone. Most people don't need Asuswrt-Merlin firmware, nor custom scripts. Why is AMTM installation offered every single time someone asks how to setup an RT-AC86U? Even before you know what this person needs, you overwhelm him with JFFS partitions, scripts, swap files, USB drives... this guy doesn't know where to start! He most likely needs basic setup help for something not very clear how to do in the User Manual provided with the router. That's all for now! You may ask the guy what he needs, then tell him what options are available. Your usual recipe Asuswrt-Merlin + custom scripts + swap file + USB drive is not a good starting point to someone who just got the router and doesn't know what cable to connect to what port. Let him do the basic setup, see how the things are going, get familiar with the WebUI. If he has more questions or needs, he'll come back.

Before you write your next post with recommendations how to setup an RT-AC86U router, think about this:
Imagine the SNB forum is a grocery store. A customer comes in and asks for strawberries. Good customer service response is to show the customer where the strawberries are. Better customer service response is to show the customer not only where the strawberries are, but also where the strawberry related products are. Bad customer service response is to tell the customer to get strawberry jam instead, because it's concentrated, more sweet and fills the stomach faster. What type of CSR you want to be here on SNB?

 

[Val D.]

I have changed my mind about RT-AC86U. I do not recommend ASUS routers to anyone anymore.

 

[whitey019]

I have changed my mind about RT-AC86U. I do not recommend ASUS routers to anyone anymore.

Out of curiosity what router do you recommend?

 

[doczenith1]

I've had my 86U for two years now. Not a single problem. There must have a been a bad batch sometime in late 2018 or early 2019.

 

[Val D.]

Out of curiosity what router do you recommend?

Unfortunately, due to more players on the market and increased competition, all current consumer products are as cheap as possible disposable units. More false advertising, less development efforts and less quality control. ASUS current product line is no different, they have to survive on the market somehow. This particular RT-AC86U router had to be discontinued long time ago or at least re-worked, but no one cares as long as it still sells. A router with software issues that doesn't even reboot properly every time is one of the current "best" in ASUS product line. Seriously?

I would recommend a wired router + switch + access points system, if the budget and knowledge allows. You pay more money, but you know you have a reliable WiFi system for years to come. There are many options and combinations available. If this sounds too complicated to setup, then home mesh systems like Netgear Orbi, TP-Link Deco, Google WiFi, Linksys Velop, D-Link COVR, etc. are not a bad option. ASUS AiMesh is not a real competitor to home mesh systems, IMHO. It's more like a central management of wireless repeaters with no roaming technologies support. For people on a tight budget (under $100) routers like Netgear R6700 V1/V3, R7000(P), TP-Link Archer C7, A7, A9, etc. work reliably. As a general recommendation - avoid 50-in-1 devices. Many of the advertised functions are mediocre at best. TP-Link Archer C2300 is a good device for about $120, based on the same hardware as ASUS RT-AC86U, but with simpler and better working firmware. In the higher segment Synology RT2600AC, Netgear R7800, ASUS RT-AX88U (yes, this one is good). WIFI 6 routers are still work-in-progress, so no real need to spend more money just because of WIFI 6 partial support. Most current WIFI 6 routers do not support all WIFI 6 specifications.

 

[Val D.]

I've had my 86U for two years now. Not a single problem. There must have a been a bad batch sometime in late 2018 or early 2019.

They are all the same hardware revision with the same software, 2017-2019 models. You just never encountered an issue or just never looked more closely. If it works well for you, keep it. It's not a bad hardware for the money and 5GHz WiFi radio module is one of the best available, thanks to Broadcom BCM4366E chip.