RT-AC86U - mesh node options

[hangtime23]

I currently have an RT-AC86U as my main router, living in a ~2500 sqft house. Router was servicing the house just fine, but about 6 months ago we rented out our basement to tenants, who set up their own wifi and Internet access. Since then, connection has been spotty in some parts of the house, and especially to an outdoor smart camera at the front of the house (the router is set up at the back of the house).

Considering adding an AIMesh node to my network, just wondering what suggestions you guys would have for options? I'm currently running the diversion ad blocker on the AC86U, which I love, only thing is that I do find that I need to re-install diversion from time to time as ads will start 'sneaking' through. Looking at potentially a single Zenwifi XT8, but would want to use this as a node as it seems it's not possible to run the merlin firmware on this. Also looking at an AX86U, and in this case, I would probably want to use this as my main router, and convert the AC86U to a node, right? Looking to purchase used from FB Marketplace, is there anything I should look out for when buying used?

 

[L&LD]

Welcome to the forums @hangtime23.

A few comments/questions:

• The tenants have their own ISP service, correct?
• Can you not simply ask them to use different Control Channels for their WiFi?
• Is their router close to your router?
• Are you able to move your router (or theirs) further apart from each other?
• The RT-AX86U isn't planned on being upgraded to the 3.0.0.6.xxx level firmware (which all currently supported Asus routers are headed to). It's not worth considering buying it today (at almost any price and any use case).
• The ZenWiFi series is not recommended even if some may have a stable network with them (after many firmware updates and hairpulling).

An AX class router should easily cover your home vs. the once king of AC class routers, the RT-AC86U. Providing of course, that it is appropriately located, and set up (i.e. Control Channels, etc.). I would not recommend an AiMesh setup within your home today (with the tenants running another router in such close proximity to yours.

The routers to consider today are the GT-AX6000 and the RT-AX88U Pro. The latter is the better bet today because it is ~2 years newer and should be supported longer than the equally capable (today) GT-AX6000. Another possibility to consider (if you have much less than 1Gbps ISP speeds) is the RT-AX68U too. But I expect the prices between all three of these routers to favor the RT-AX88U Pro when sales and superior hardware are all considered.


See how much difference you may expect with an AX class router vs. your current one.

[ 386.4 alpha Build(s) ] Testing available build(s)

There are some odd regressions being discussed on the dnsmasq-discuss list from the PiHole guy (Dominik). https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015598.html https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015596.html I see Merlin is testing 2.86 out...

www.snbforums.com

 

[hangtime23]

Wow, thanks for the detailed reply L&LD!

To answer your questions:

Yes - the tenants have their own ISP service.
No - the tenants are not very technical at all and probably wouldn't know how to do this. I believe they had the ISP technician just come in and set everything up for them when they got their service setup. I'm not sure how comfortable I feel asking them to gain access to their network in order to change their control channel. I've cycled through all of mine to see which one results in the best connection overall, and found one that works ok (but not as good as before they moved in).
The routers aren't close but aren't far either, if I had to estimate, maybe 20-25 ft apart? We can't move either router really because there is only one cable connection on the main floor and one in the basement.
Why would you say the RT-AX86U isn't worth considering buying today? I don't necessarily need the latest and greatest - I just need something that will give me better coverage in the slower zones of my house.
Also, why would you not suggest an AiMesh setup? I was thinking having a node set up in the front of my house would help coverage in that area?
I'm not really looking to spend too much (<$200 CAD ideally), so I was thinking a quick and cheaper way to improve my coverage would be to just get a used older model router that I can use as a new node on my network.

 

[L&LD]

Not worth considering when it is known to not get the 3.0.0.6.xxx level firmware. Not a matter of the latest and greatest. A matter of how long you can have a supported (security-wise) router. The same reason why you want to upgrade your current router too (soon, it will be EOL).

As you already have issues with WiFi with just two routers in the home, adding more will only exacerbate these types of problems.

Put your network/router to the best control channel you know works.

Kindly ask your tenants to give you temporary access to change their CC to something that doesn't interfere with yours. (Let them use their laptop/computer, log in, and allow you to make the change necessary).

You don't need to spend anything today.

But in the foreseeable future, you should.

If your tenants are not comfortable/knowledgeable enough to make the CC changes, you must do it for them (with their permission, of course). Nothing else will bring you satisfaction at this point. Adding more WiFi isn't a solution when a single router (yours) isn't operating/set up optimally for your environment. Fix the real issue before trying Band-Aid solutions.

Spending even half your budget on outdated tech isn't a way forward either (even if you find some improvement in your network use). Again, it's not a matter of latest and greatest. It's a matter of having a secure and supported solution for the 'digital front door' of your network against the rest of the www.

Edit: to further clarify my reasoning... that ~2,500 SqFt area you're trying to cover, I'm assuming included the basement (originally). That's not how to properly count WiFi coverage. I'm assuming your floor area is closer to ~1,250 SqFt, which is why I don't recommend more WiFi within.

 

[hangtime23]

Thanks again for the detailed reply L&LD!

The 2500sqft I'm trying to cover is actually our living space (not including the basement). We have 2 floors of ~1250 sqft each, and then the basement is a separate ~750 sqft space.

I will look into getting a used AX-88U Pro or GT-AX6000, unless you would suggest focusing only on buying new. However, given that it's 2500 sqft I'm trying to cover, and not the 1250 sqft like you thought initially, do you think just the single router would be enough? Or should I then use my existing RT-AC86U as a mesh node after getting another router?

 

[L&LD]

The floor level (above or below) doesn't matter (unless your floors are concrete/etc.). You're covering 1,250 SqFt (WiFi RF moves in 3D).

If you can find a good/great example of a used router I suggest, that would possibly save you some money, but a new one isn't much more than your budget either.

In my experience, connecting an AC class router as an AiMesh node (wired or wirelessly) to an AX class router decreased the performance of the network, overall. And in at least one case, even connecting an AX class router to the superior (at the time) RT-AX86U was detrimental. I wouldn't recommend such a setup, even today.

RT-AX88U or RT-AX86U as main Router using AiMesh 2.0 with Merlin firmware.

Looking for some thoughts regarding what appliance is preferred when deploying a two-node AiMesh configuration. I will test and compare, but am curious as to what others may have experienced. As of today, both Nodes would be running Merlin 386.1_beta. Diversion, Skynet & Unbound. Available...

www.snbforums.com

Yes, I still believe a single router in your home will be more than enough.

Before you spend/buy on a used router (which will probably not have any return privileges), maybe you can try a brand new model in your home and see how it actually works in your environment (and return it if it doesn't meet your needs, and/or, if a used one is considerably less money).

Also, don't forget that even a few inches in router placement (and antennae orientation) in the x, y, and z axes can make a huge difference at the other end of the home too.

 

[hangtime23]

Thank you again for all the great info! Trying a new one first is a good suggestion, I may keep an eye out for deals on the upcoming Black Friday sales, and even end up keeping it if it works out well for me.

Is the antenna orientation as simple as pointing them in the directions of the parts of the home which have weaker signal?

 

[Tech9]

Second hand RT-AX86U is a relatively safe purchase. Make it main, your router node if needed. You don't need anything else more expensive. The difference in user experience will be close to none. Your tenants router has perhaps nothing to do with your Wi-Fi issues even if it's tuned on exactly the same channels. Your router is a model with well known issues. Some of them develop over time. Don't overpay for something you don't need.

 

[L&LD]

You're welcome.

Antennae orientation is perpendicular to the area you want to light up with WiFi.

A single antennae on our consumer routers have a donut-shaped pattern when viewed from above. When you tilt/angle the antennae, you are changing the angle of that donut shape, when viewed from the side.

So, with your router in one end of the home and you point it like so: \ the upper areas on the right and the lower areas on the left of the router should be getting an increased signal.

Don't forget to try moving the entire router itself too (even mere inches can help). Including the z-height axis.

 

[hangtime23]

Second hand RT-AX86U is a relatively safe purchase. Make it main, your router node if needed. You don't need anything else more expensive. The difference in user experience will be close to none. Your tenants router has perhaps nothing to do with your Wi-Fi issues even if it's tuned on exactly the same channels. Your router is a model with well known issues. Some of them develop over time. Don't overpay for something you don't need.

I'm looking into second hand AX86U, and it seems like the cost differential between that and a second hand AX88U Pro is ~$50..in that case I should probably just go with the AX88U pro right?

 

[RMerlin]

and a second hand AX88U Pro

Double check that it's really an RT-AX88U Pro and not the older RT-AX88U. I find it surprising that a model launched less than a year ago would appear on the used market already.

 

[hangtime23]

Item description is saying AX88U Pro, but I'm asking for pics of the box to make sure.

 

[Tech9]

Do you need 2x 2.5GbE ports? If not - why buying something more expensive and much larger in size? If you are looking for a second hand device I believe money you pay is important to you, no? The older RT-AX86U can be found at lower price, it's supported and has everything you need.

 

[hangtime23]

Do you need 2x 2.5GbE ports? If not - why buying something more expensive and much larger in size? If you are looking for a second hand device I believe money you pay is important to you, no? The older RT-AX86U can be found at lower price, it's supported and has everything you need.

yes the cost is important, but I'm thinking if I can get an AX88U pro for an extra $50, then I may just go in that direction.

 

[Tech9]

Your choice. This router takes 4 times more space and will do exactly the same thing for you for more money.

 

[L&LD]

4 times more space, huh.

 

[hangtime23]

Oh geez is it really that much bigger?

 

[Tech9]

One is upright design, the other is flat. There is substantial difference in the space they take on the table/shelf.

Your choice. Make sure you find some use for the extra $50 you pay. There is no futureproofing with AIO routers.

 

[hangtime23]

Got it..thanks for that picture Tech9, really helps me to visualize how it would look. Also, seems like the guy was misinformed about his AX88U, and it's not actually the Pro version. So I may be looking at an AX86U.

 

[Tech9]

So I may be looking at an AX86U.

AX86U will be a good choice. I see some used around me for USD150 equivalent, on Marketplace.