Condo Wi-Fi setup advice

[Bobitza]

Hi,

I'm looking for advice for a good wi-fi setup for my condo; here's the location and devices involved.

Location (~1,200 sf):

Devices:
- 1 (R) router is cable connected to a modem as well as a Iomega DLNA server and a portable external HDD. The two act as the NAS for the rest of the devices (pictures, movies, etc.)
- 3 (TV) android boxes (with Kodi) connected to the TVs we have
- 1 (PC) desktop
- 2 (L) laptops; one is used for work and it has a "fixed" location (red) and the other is mostly used in the master bedroom (yellow)
- 2 (T) tablets that are of course mobile but I placed in yellow the location where they are used most of the time
- 1 (X) xbox game console
- 3 phones (not shown in the picture)

Notes:
- All devices can operate on 2.4 and 5 (except 2 of the android TV)
- I do not want to run wires
- The condo is in a big building so there is a "soup" of signals around me

Priorities:
1. The PC must have a good connection to the Internet as well good transfer rates to the NAS
2. The TV boxes must be able to stream at least 720p from the NAS or Internet (sometimes 2 of them at the same time)
3. I would like to have just 1 SSID
4. I would like the X-box to have a good Internet connection
5. I would like the costs to be under $400

I currently run a mix and match combination of a router (Archer C8) with powerline adapters on PC and android TV and a range extender with a second SSID and the laptops, xbox, tablets and phones on wi-fi. I think it's not optimal and it shows.

 

[degrub]

Put an AC POE AP right at the center of the entryway "Y" on the ceiling so that you have line of sight into the two main usage areas. Get the pillow shaped type with hidden antennas. Turn off wireless on your router. POE will allow you to run 1 cable from the router to the ceiling location. Use a power injector so that you do not have to replace the router.


That will be about the best you can do.
If you have coax cable, you could use MOCA modems to reach some locations and place APs there.

 

[CaptainSTX]

Hi,

I'm looking for advice for a good wi-fi setup for my condo; here's the location and devices involved.

I know you want a WiFi solution but have you considered using MOCA on the existing coxial for CATV?

Is there any wiring for hardwired telephones that could be converted to data?

Using hardwired APs would be preferable to using WiFi for data back haul.

If Wifi is to be the solution what are the interior walls constructed of?

 

[Bobitza]

Yes, I think the backhaul is my main problem here. I was/am considering a Orbi 3000 solution with the satellite/AP somewhere near the TV in one of the bedrooms but then, almost all devices will connect to the satellite and I would be bottle neck-ed by the backhaul channels of the Orbi.

Yes, I do have cable setup with entry/exit points near the R + near the T in the living room + near the TV in the master bedroom. But I don't even know what MOCA is or how do I test to see if the cable works? (only moved in the last year and never used cable). If I can backhaul via cable and then create a mesh with APs ... I think we might be onto something here.

The walls are made of that "cardboard thingy" ... they aren't concrete or any solid material like that.

Can anyone explain or point me in the right direction for MOCA on existing coaxial CATV?

 

[CaptainSTX]

Can anyone explain or point me in the right direction for MOCA on existing coaxial CATV?

First, do you have access within your condo to both ends of each coaxial run? One end would be at each wall jack the other is probably in a box, cabinet closet within your unit. You should see multiple cables at that location. They could be connected to splitter or a distribution AMP.

Search this forum and read about MOCA. If I am not mistaken there have been some reviews of various pieces of MOCA gear. The setup is quite simple and will in most cases give you a much more dependable backhaul and by installing some inexpensive unmanaged switches (to provide multiple Ethernet ports ) hook your smart TVs up using Ethernet which will result in very reliable streaming.

 

[Bobitza]

I did some research and from my understanding so far, I would need a MOCA adapter near the current modem/router and then one for each exit point I plan to use with either an AP/router or like you said, some unmanaged switches.

I don't have a box or cabinet closet, here's a picture of the cable I see near the router (which I assume is the entry point in my apartment). Am I ok or not?

 

[degrub]

look for either RG59 or RG6 stamped or printed on the cable.
Mark on your drawing where the other ends of the cable are located on the walls in the rooms.

You likely only need 1 AP near the center of the condo. Otherwise too much signal overlap.

 

[Bobitza]

I have marked with orange circles (C) the places where I see cable exits.

There is no marking on the cables, I can only see the following marking on the "metal head": SNS1P59

 

[CaptainSTX]

I did some research and from my understanding so far, I would need a MOCA adapter near the current modem/router and then one for each exit point I plan to use with either an AP/router or like you said, some unmanaged switches.

I don't have a box or cabinet closet, here's a picture of the cable I see near the router (which I assume is the entry point in my apartment). Am I ok or not?

View attachment 11673

It looks good.

How do you get your data service? Is it delivered using a cable modem or is it fiber, DSL?

To be clear you don't subscribe to any video services delivered using the coaxial cable and your building doesn't use it to deliver a video message board or announce guests?

If the coaxial isn't used you can disconnect the cable marked in and if you only need/want one AP you can connect the coaxial cable to that location directly to your first MOCA adapter. If you need to keep two or more locations then you will have to use a splitter rated for at least 1.4 ghz. While I can't read the label on the splitter in the picture it looks old so it probably won't pass the higher frequencies that MOCA uses.

 

[Bobitza]

I get Internet via DSL (phone line), currently using the SpeedStream Fast 2864 modem/router. The Archer C8 router is plugged into the modem currently.

No, I don't have a cable subscription; I believe the building has some sort of an agreement with one of the cable companies to deliver cable to the apartments that have a subscription (I can find out if this is important).

Yes, the splitter seems to be very old, just like the cables (it's a 30 years old building). If I take the splitter out however, I need to figure out which of the OUTs is to be used, lol.

To through a curve ball ... would perhaps a powerline setup + AP/router be a better choice vs the MOCa + AP/router? Less expensive at least with similar results?
- The violet lines are the the assumed powerline connections
- The cyan circles are the new AP/router position.

 

[degrub]

Those are RG59 cables. You will be limited to the older MOCA 1.1 which will 1) be cheaper, and 2) probably good enough for your loads.

You will need to disconnect the OUTPUT cables from the splitter and get a bidirectional 5-2 GHz two way splitter. Key is bidirectional and at least 1.6 GHz upper limit rating. It will look just like the existing one. Connect the two cables to the new splitter OUTPUT side and connect a short RG59 cable between a MOCA 1.1 modem COAX IN and the INPUT port on the new splitter. Connect an ethernet cable from the Router to the MOCA modem input.

In your case, if you only need one run, you could just connect one of the cables directly to the MOCA modem and not get a new splitter.

Connect a MOCA 1.1 modem on each of the other end of the two cables. If you do not use or connect a cable to the splitter, you must place a terminator (75 ohm) cap on the splitter port. Now you can connect any ethernet device to the ethernet port on each. This can be a small switch, an AP, a PC, etc. If you put in two AC class APs, mount them on the wall near the MOCA modem. That will reduce the chance they will interfere. You will have a dead zone in the middle room, probably. One AC AP should be more than enough to cover the entire house if you mount it on the ceiling or perhaps sit it on top of a table.

Powerline, if only one pair and good power system could get close to MOCA1.1 in throughput. As soon as you add another powerline device on the power system, throughput will likely drop.

Use the newer Powerline AV2 type adapters for your best chance. Otherwise i would go with MOCA.

 

[CaptainSTX]

You can buy a tester that will test both coax and Ethernet for continuity for less than US $10. This will allow you to quickly determine which cable goes to where, however with so few cables trial and error isn't a big time consumer either.

Don't use a splitter unless you want to add two APs.

MOCA usually works better than powerline. Buy your MOCA adapters from someplace you can return them if they don't work for you. If they don't work try powerline. If that doesn't work you are stuck with WiFi.

 

[Bobitza]

OK, I'll go hunting for MOCA and powerline adapters deals and will post back when I have a new setup with feedback on speeds, etc. I see their prices are not that cheap so I'll convert the current router into an AP that will be connected via "cable" with the modem.

 

[degrub]

You will still need a "routing" device to handle DHCP, NAT, firewall, etc. Moving your existing will not be an issue.

 

[Bobitza]

The modem is a modem/router with DHCP server, etc. (even a wireless option that I will disable). I'll rely on the SpeedStream Fast 2864 modem/router as the router and the Archer C8 becoming the AP.

 

[Bobitza]

OK, so I found a good deal on some powerline adapters (TP-Link AV2000 Powerline Adapter Kit 2-Port - CAD 90 / USD 73) on Amazon so I decided to give it a try.

The setup that I just finished is the one in my last image ... and I'm happy with the results so far:
- the speed from (PC) to (R)'s connected Iomega media center doubled
- the speed from the (PC) to the HDDs connected to the Archer acting as AP is now x8 - x10 (partially explained by the new found proximity between the 2 powerline adapters)
- full signal on all tablets and phones since the wireless AP/router is now in a central position in the apartment
- dropped the mini range extender used (back to 2 SSIDs - the 2.4ghz and 5ghz). Can I have just one?

BEFORE transfers from PC to Iomega server (1) and PC to HDDs (2)
1.

2.

AFTER transfers from PC to Iomega server (1) and PC to HDDs (2)

1.

2.

However, I just encountered some new issues:
- All the tablets and phones with the exception of a Moto X (2nd gen) had difficulties in getting an IP address from the Sagemcom DHCP server via the TP-Link Archer C8 access point. The only way I could make them connect was to set a static IP.
- One of the android TV boxes running an older version (4.4) couldn't even connect via cable (the box that is near the AP)

Is there something wrong I'm doing with the AP settings? What I did so far on the Archer AP was:
- disable the DHCP server in Network --> DHCP Server
- assign a static IP address in Network --> LAN

 

[degrub]

you can have just one SSID if you like. The device will pick one.
Do you have IPV6 enabled ? i would disable it throughout if you don't have to have it as a start.
Is only one device serving DHCP ?
Are the devices timing out on the DHCP request ?

 

[Bobitza]

OK, I just used the same name for both the 2.4 and 5. Let's see what happens ...
IPv6 is turned off in the AP.
Yes, the DHCP is turned off in the AP and I turned it on in the modem/router.
Yes, all wireless Android phones, tablets and tv boxes are timing out on getting the IP address ("Failed to obtain IP address") with the exception of the Moto X phone. One of the laptops gets the IP (Win 10), the other doesn't (Win 7).

Note: I just disabled NAT in AP since I expect the modem/router to do it ... right?

The phones/tablets still can't get a dynamic IP. I need to use static on all of them

 

[degrub]

what do the devices have as the default router/gateway entries ? It is usually the device that is routing/gateway, but you can specify any DHCP server.
The AP should specify its default gateway.
turn off IPV6 throughout your network.
Only the modem/gateway should be doing NAT unless you need a different subnet and have to double NAT.

 

[Bobitza]

what do the devices have as the default router/gateway entries ? It is usually the device that is routing/gateway, but you can specify any DHCP server.

I didn't know that, I put the Archer AP do the DHCP-ing and that solved the not getting the IP problem. It looks like Android devices like the archer more than the speedstream.

LE: I have removed a couple of paragraphs.