Looking at this home network map, how do I create a wired backhaul mesh without running into downstream problems?

[spooky981]

I'd like to go from a single router arrangement to a wired mesh setup, something like the Asus ET8. However I know from previous experience that I can't simply stick wired mesh points all over the house. The mesh points apparently have to be "downstream" from the primary router. The problem is I don't know how to do that. I think I need a switch but I'm not sure.

I'd like the primary router to be in the office, a mesh point where the basement TV is, and a mesh point where the bedroom TV is. How do I accomplish this?

The Verizon G11000 gets its internet from the Verizon utility box via COAX if that makes a difference.

 

[Tech Junky]

I see 2 floors / 3 TV's and a PC.

Where is the VZ in the house? 1st floor? Basement?

Asus ZenWiFi ET8 Review: That Big 6GHz Bet | Dong Knows Tech

The Asus ZenWiFi ET8 is not an upgrade to the XT8 released in early 2020. Instead, it's a new type of tri-band mesh designed for wired backhauls or open spaces.

dongknows.com

Probably won't need a switch since each node has 4 gig ports to plug into. The benefits of the 2.5GE port though for the WAN won't offer much benefit for the wired devices being capped at 1gbps. There are 2.5GE switches for ~$100 though that could speed things up a bit if you have the need for speed.

A cheaper option would be getting a couple of AP's and then using your switch to connect them back tot he router.

 

[spooky981]

I see 2 floors / 3 TV's and a PC.

Where is the VZ in the house? 1st floor? Basement?

Asus ZenWiFi ET8 Review: That Big 6GHz Bet | Dong Knows Tech

The Asus ZenWiFi ET8 is not an upgrade to the XT8 released in early 2020. Instead, it's a new type of tri-band mesh designed for wired backhauls or open spaces.

dongknows.com

Probably won't need a switch since each node has 4 gig ports to plug into. The benefits of the 2.5GE port though for the WAN won't offer much benefit for the wired devices being capped at 1gbps. There are 2.5GE switches for ~$100 though that could speed things up a bit if you have the need for speed.

A cheaper option would be getting a couple of AP's and then using your switch to connect them back tot he router.

The Verizon modem is in a utility closet in the basement.

I'm just confused because I attempted to just stick Nest routers all over the house a couple years ago but they stopped working as soon as they were plugged in (worked fine as wireless mesh but not as wired mesh). I was told it was because the mesh points needed to be "downstream" from the primary router, which would be accomplished by adding a switch. Has the technology changed?

 

[degrub]

wifi 6 is a work in progress so you might want to wait a 6 months to a year until the dust settles.

do you have any wifi6 mobile devices ? if not, another reason to hold off.

i assume you are hard wiring all the devices except phones and tablets.
Is verizon ISP service internet only or are you using TV set top boxes as well ?

how many levels in house ? rough dimensions each level ?

assuming internet only - put your verizon modem/router in modem only mode (bridged) mode. put the asus next to the verizon modem. Ethernet cable from lan port of the verizon to the wan port of the asus ET8. connect all other ethernet cables to the lan ports on the ET8. That is your main router and network. Add other asus nodes where and if you need them for wireless coverage.

if it is only a basement + ground floor you may only need the one asus wireless router.

 

[OzarkEdge]

The Verizon modem is in a utility closet in the basement.

I'm just confused because I attempted to just stick Nest routers all over the house a couple years ago but they stopped working as soon as they were plugged in (worked fine as wireless mesh but not as wired mesh). I was told it was because the mesh points needed to be "downstream" from the primary router, which would be accomplished by adding a switch. Has the technology changed?

Never mind the 'downstream' concern.

What nominal down/up speeds is your Verizon FIOS Internet service provisioned for?... what are your speedtest.net down/up speeds from a browser running on the office PC?... is this a fairly new/fast PC?... is it wired or wireless to the office router? Do you subscribe to Verizon TV service?... Phone service?... or just Internet service? Are you satisfied with Verizon?... do you have another ISP option at your location, like Cable Internet?

Is the Verizon gateway in the basement a G1100 or a G11000 (I only found the G1100 online)? You say it uses coax, not Ethernet, to connect to Verizon's upstream equipment, yes?... about how old is this installation? Does it broadcast WiFi? Does this WiFi cover your area or is it too weak anywhere? Do you log into the Verizon 'G11000' gateway to manage it?

How many levels above the basement are there and about how many sq ft is a level? Are there any interior masonry obstacles to WiFi like concrete floors/walls or fireplaces?

Are the downstream lines drawn in your diagram coax to TV set-top boxes?... or are they Ethernet to the TVs? Do any TVs connect to WiFi? Do the TVs have an Ethernet jack? Is the office PC wired or wireless to the office router? Can you add cabling to or between the TV/office locations?

Are you using an Ethernet switch anywhere? Do you need an Ethernet connection anywhere besides the office? What is the make and model of the 2nd router in your office?... is it connected to the Verizon gateway with Ethernet or coax?... is it broadcasting WiFi? Presumably it is double-NATed with the Verizon gateway/router.

OE

 

[Tech9]

I'd like to go from a single router arrangement to a wired mesh setup, something like the Asus ET8.

This is not a mesh. AiMesh is a marketing name.

Can we please stop calling it mesh?

I see many posts that ask about Wi-Fi "mesh" systems using Ethernet backhaul. This is not a Wi-Fi "mesh" system. It is a multi-AP system with maybe some central management. Mesh systems use Wi-Fi to connect APs via Wi-Fi back to a "Root" node that has an Ethernet connection to the internet...

www.snbforums.com

 

[Tech9]

I'd like the primary router to be in the office, a mesh point where the basement TV is, and a mesh point where the bedroom TV is. How do I accomplish this?

Before you start "meshing", try with single router in central location. This is the best setup with home routers.

 

[spooky981]

Never mind the 'downstream' concern.

What nominal down/up speeds is your Verizon FIOS Internet service provisioned for?

I pay for 500 MBPS.

what are your speedtest.net down/up speeds from a browser running on the office PC?

92 MBPS on the computer, my NEST wifi router tests at 508 MBPS.

is this a fairly new/fast PC?

Yes I generally have newer PCs. I'm an adult gamer.

is it wired or wireless to the office router?

Wired to the office router. The Verizon modem in the basement is strictly a passthrough, I disabled all of the wireless signals it had when I first put it in.

Do you subscribe to Verizon TV service?... Phone service?... or just Internet service?

Just internet. As a cord cutter I don't see that ever changing.

Are you satisfied with Verizon?... do you have another ISP option at your location, like Cable Internet?

I am satisfied with Verizon. Comcast exists but the prices are similar so I don't feel compelled to make a jump.

Is the Verizon gateway in the basement a G1100 or a G11000 (I only found the G1100 online)?

You are correct! It is a G1100, that is my mistake.

You say it uses coax, not Ethernet, to connect to Verizon's upstream equipment, yes?

I am terribly sorry, I am making this more difficult for everyone including myself. The internet does indeed come in through an ethernet line, I was recalling a memory from my old house that does nothing for us here.

about how old is this installation?

1.5 years old. New house.

Does it broadcast WiFi?

The G1100 could, but I turned off the broadcasts the moment I got it.

Does this WiFi cover your area or is it too weak anywhere?

I currently use a NEST mesh setup but its become problematic lately. I've got about 70 smart devices and when the wifi isn't working properly the whole house becomes a mess. When its working the signal is fine. My two biggest laments are that my devices constantly seem connected to the wrong mesh node, like for some reason my doorbell will connect to the basement or my peloton will connect to the bedroom. My second complaint is that its not snappy - I can go to bookmarks on my phone and instead of immediately popping up it thinks about it for a few moments before displaying the page.

Finally the NEST setup is strictly a wireless backhaul, but that doesn't make sense in a house that is completely wired. I'd like to have an ethernet backhaul.

Do you log into the Verizon 'G11000' gateway to manage it?

It's been so long I don't even know if I could recall the password. It's working though which is good.

How many levels above the basement are there and about how many sq ft is a level?

There are two levels above the basement, the entire home is about 4000 sq ft. So that would be about 1300 ft per floor.

Are there any interior masonry obstacles to WiFi like concrete floors/walls or fireplaces?

No, open floorplan.

Are the downstream lines drawn in your diagram coax to TV set-top boxes?... or are they Ethernet to the TVs?

Ethernet to the TVs, but I'm not sure I understand your question.

Do any TVs connect to WiFi?

All of them could, but I have them connected via etherenet.

Do the TVs have an Ethernet jack?

All of them.

Is the office PC wired or wireless to the office router?

Wired. It goes from the wall, to my Nest router, to my computer.

Can you add cabling to or between the TV/office locations?

I'm just not good enough at home improvement for something like that. I would have to outsource the job.

Are you using an Ethernet switch anywhere?

No.

Do you need an Ethernet connection anywhere besides the office?

The ethernet ports I have by the TV's and in the office are good enough. I don't need any more.

What is the make and model of the 2nd router in your office?...

It's a Nest Wifi Router.

is it connected to the Verizon gateway with Ethernet or coax?...

Ethernet

is it broadcasting WiFi?

Yep, it's the primary router with one puck in the bedroom and one puck in the basement.

Presumably it is double-NATed with the Verizon gateway/router.

I'm certain that it is.

 

[Tech Junky]

I am satisfied with Verizon. Comcast exists but the prices are similar so I don't feel compelled to make a jump.

Not to mention you would take a hit on the upload speeds getting knocked down to 40mbps.

92 MBPS on the computer, my NEST wifi router tests at 508 MBPS.

This makes no sense if you're wired to the router and the router is hitting 500mbps.

70 smart devices

That's quite a bit. Do you know how many / percentage are using 2.4 vs 5?

I'd like to have an ethernet backhaul.

That's ideal and you have the wiring to support it.

4000 sq ft. So that would be about 1300 ft per floor.

Well that to me would mean you need 2-3 AP's depending on where you use WIFI the most and the chances of beams or concrete floors for penetration purposes of the signals.

OzarkEdge said:
Presumably it is double-NATed with the Verizon gateway/router.

I'm certain that it is.

If the G1100 is bridged you should be getting a routable IP on the Nest for the WAN.

-----------------------------

Lots of good detailed info here.

Here's what I'm assuming is 2-3 floors for the house including the basement.

Since you have the ONT >> Nest on the 1st floor via Ethernet converting things will be easier.

If you went with enterprise / SMB AP's instead of nodes / mesh / etc. marketing termed devices that are cute white / black boxes you should be able to get good coverage / speed from them.

A switch is optional but I'm thinking you have a central location in the house where all of your Ethernet drops go back to.

The Plus is you typically have room and an AC outlet nearby. I have something similar to this in my closet for the telco / ethernet / cable co / alarm feed into and it's convenient for making changes to wiring pathways. The downside is the patch portion for Ethernet can be flakey. Putting a switch inside the cabinet could be beneficial along with the fiber box unless that's already in the cabinet in the basement or mounted to a plywood backing on the wall.

Either way if things feed into a central location you're able to make some changes w/ very little effort.

I would first make sure the Nest is an issue before replacing it. If it's bad then what I would do is get a wired only router to take the handoff from the ISP and then another port to the switch. These little boxes are ~$50 and take care of the handoff portion from the provider. A switch gets you optimal speeds in the house between devices and feed back to the single cable from the router. From the switch you can feed your TV's and wired locations.

For the AP's you have a couple of options using either AC adapters or POE through the cabling itself. POE switches aren't too bad for pricing and eliminate the AC warts all over the place. I would add a 5-port POE++ giving you room for 4 AP's and a link back to the primary switch.

Ubiquity offers some 3-5 packs of AC AP's at a reasonable price. If you want to take advantage of AX benefits then it's a bit more limited. The best bang for the buck though is Zyxel @ $130/ea for a 2x2 or $160 for a 4x4 model. I use the 4x4 option and it covers 1300 sq ft pretty well. I don't see any reduced speeds / dead spots and if I'm in the same room with it I can hit 1.5gbps on the LAN which makes for easy streaming or backups.

In the end though it comes down to budget and time

$50 - small router
$50 - switch for TV / PC
$100 - switch for AP's
$390-$480- for 4 AP's

The other benefit is when you feel like an upgrade is wanted you can selectively swap out things as needed. When the AXE AP's come down in price for instance you could put one of those in the gaming area. It all depends on what the priorities are for each area.

Also, the AP's have 8 SSID's per radio meaning you can tie the lower priority devices to 2.4ghz only SSID's to keep them from consuming more bandwidth / extended reach. Priority devices on 5ghz or combined AX 2.4+5.

 

[spooky981]

I do indeed have a white box similar to that. However it only contains ethernet lines that come from all over the house and the G1100. Verizon has some equipment in the house too in a small box that I don't touch.

Budget is unlimited but knowledge of how this works is severely limited. I'm on the verge of just paying somebody to figure it out for me, but perhaps you could recommend an idiot proof router set I could put throughout the house? NEST was fairly idiot proof but I ran into that downstream issue when trying to connect a second router in a wired backhaul and came away convinced that I needed a switch to prevent that. So now its a wireless backhaul instead which is silly since there's an empty ethernet jack right next to it.

I've also had people advise me that with three floors of 1300 sq ft each and an open floor plan, maybe just one really powerful centrally located router would give me the best results. Do you agree with that? I have one particular place in my home that would only be one layer of drywall, floor, or ceiling from every device.

 

[Tech Junky]

So, I would pick up one of these Wired Router ($60) and connect this to the ONT / handoff. This gets you your routing you need to go out to the internet and be protected from the outside.

Then to feed the wired PC / TV's get a TL-SG108 for $20

ONT <> ER605 <> TL-SG108

TL-SG108 <> GS1005P <> AP's

The GS1005P ($60) is where your AP power would come from to make things easier to place w/o an AC adapter to power each AP restricting the placement options.

Optionally if you want one less box you could combine the 2 switched into a single box but the price can go up considerably. depending on how many ports you need.

GS1010P ($80) - 10 ports / 8 POE+ -

With the AP's or any POE devices going for the top end power supply means you don't have to augment the setup later on if you jump from a 15W device to a 30W device. Or if you do add more POE devices like cameras you can add another switch to the mix off the router.

So, from the ONT you're looking at:
router - $60
Switch 1 - $20
POE switch - $60 //or// $80 to combine the 2 switches into 1
AP's - 3 @ $390 (110ax) //or// $580 (210ax)

Only thing you have to configure would be the router to get your DHCP from the ONT and then the AP's since the switches are dumb and don't need to be configured other than plugging in the cable.