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Tiny Beard

Occasional Visitor
Hey!

Completely new here, and rapidly consuming as much info about networking as I can. Certainly a newfound hobby/interest/fixation.

I have a pretty open ended question concerning optimal setup for my network with Fios. Short memoir incoming.

So, I live in pretty old condos. Parents let me take over the internet service as I am the only one with any remote interest in optimizing it in any fashion. Switched to Fios gigabit from Xfinity, reduced the bill substantially. We only have Fios without any other service such as home or TV. We have 4 phones, 4 tablets, 4 laptops, 2 PCs, 3 consoles, 3 TVs, 2 Apple TV, camera, stove, printer.

Fiber was initially chosen to run from attic --> outside --> into our living room, endpoint in the corner which so happens to be the farthest corner from every bedroom, kitchen, bathroom, etc. There is not much slack with the fiber and household has generally decided ONT relocation isnt negotiable for whatever reason.

We have coax from our previous Xfinity service. One runs just as the fiber does and I assume outside (is that stupid to assume? It travels into attic through different conduit than fiber and from there I havent confirmed), and another from outside --> bedroom #1 --> bedroom #2

Condo is roughly 1600sqft, with many walls/ 3 bedrooms. Brick exterior, not the thickest interior walls but not paper. Fios router has terrible 6ghz coverage obviously, 5ghz weakens significantly once in bedroom #1 (farthest room from router). 2.4ghz best coverage naturally, but its 2.4 and still struggles a bit in bedroom #1. Tons of walls/obstruction in the condo layout.

I originally wanted to have the super ultra awesome ooooooooweeeee AXE-16000, and attempt MoCa for my bedroom (bedroom #2) and bedroom #1, and hardwire everything. Given how the coax has been installed I dont know if thats possible.

Then I hastily purchased an AXE-16000 that has not yet arrived, and two ZenWiFi ET12s in hopes it would help with coverage via AIMesh. Outlets are limiting the ET12 possible locations. Hastily purchased is key here, and I'd love guidance if I'm stupid.

Also thought to keep a fancy ooooweeee ultra awesome gamer router in original location near ONT (worst location imaginable) and run cable throughout condo along corners, as we cannot do in wall install or baseboard, etc.

Every set up seems to be limited or less than ideal given the bizarre nature of the condos wiring and such. No idea what direction to go in, what to change. Please guide me or let me know whats possible/impossible given the info I've provided.

I am verbose as all hell and I apologize. Trying to be thorough to help get somewhat informed responses. I appreciate you guys thanks a bunch!
 
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An actual diagram of the condo layout would help here. Mark locations of the available ethernet or coax runs.

FWIW, for just 1600 sqft I'd expect to get by with two APs (or even one, except you seem to have proven that that's not enough). Wifi-opaque walls could be a reason to need more, but doesn't sound like you really have that. As a rule of thumb, fewer APs are better than more, as long as you can place them to cover the space.
 
Hey!

Completely new here, and rapidly consuming as much info about networking as I can. Certainly a newfound hobby/interest/fixation.

I have a pretty open ended question concerning optimal setup for my network with Fios. Short memoir incoming.

So, I live in pretty old condos. Parents let me take over the internet service as I am the only one with any remote interest in optimizing it in any fashion. Switched to Fios gigabit from Xfinity, reduced the bill substantially. We only have Fios without any other service such as home or TV.

Fiber was initially chosen to run from attic --> outside --> into our living room, endpoint in the corner which so happens to be the farthest corner from every bedroom, kitchen, bathroom, etc. There is not much slack with the fiber and household has generally decided ONT relocation isnt negotiable for whatever reason.

We have coax from our previous Xfinity service. One runs just as the fiber does and I assume outside (is that stupid to assume? It travels into attic through different conduit than fiber and from there I havent confirmed), and another from outside --> bedroom #1 --> bedroom #2

Condo is roughly 1600sqft, with many walls/ 3 bedrooms. Brick exterior, not the thickest interior walls but not paper. Fios router has terrible 6ghz coverage obviously, 5ghz weakens significantly once in bedroom #1 (farthest room from router). 2.4ghz best coverage naturally, but its 2.4 and still struggles a bit in bedroom #1. Tons of walls/obstruction in the condo layout.

I originally wanted to have the super ultra awesome ooooooooweeeee AXE-16000, and attempt MoCa for my bedroom (bedroom #2) and bedroom #1, and hardwire everything. Given how the coax has been installed I dont know if thats possible.

Then I hastily purchased an AXE-16000 that has not yet arrived, and two ZenWiFi ET12s in hopes it would help with coverage via AIMesh. Outlets are limiting the ET12 possible locations. Hastily purchased is key here, and I'd love guidance if I'm stupid.

Also thought to keep a fancy ooooweeee ultra awesome gamer router in original location near ONT (worst location imaginable) and run cable throughout condo along corners, as we cannot do in wall install or baseboard, etc.

Every set up seems to be limited or less than ideal given the bizarre nature of the condos wiring and such. No idea what direction to go in, what to change. Please guide me or let me know whats possible/impossible given the info I've provided.

I am verbose as all hell and I apologize. Trying to be thorough to help get somewhat informed responses. I appreciate you guys thanks a bunch!

Your best bet, if possible, would be to run MOCA from the ONT ethernet port to the WAN of the router and place the router somewhere central. Depending where the coax is, you may be able to cut and add a drop somewhere, or just use couplers to make a single run out of existing runs. Even if it goes a bit roundabout, not a big deal as long as the distance doesn't become really long (unlikely in a condo scenario). If possible, disconnect that coax completely from the rest of the system and just use it as a direct point to point between the two MOCA adapters.

A single centrally located AP should be plenty for a condo. Worst case, the ISP router plus one other. Can't see why you'd need 4 APs.

If you really want to run the 16000 then I'd eliminate the ISP router and plug the asus directly into the ONT. The signal from the asus will probably be much better than theirs.

So basically, if there is a coax drop somewhere central, and that is a place you can put a router, then work backwards to get that coax run to the ONT and use MOCA.
 
If you really want to run the 16000 then I'd eliminate the ISP router and plug the asus directly into the ONT. The signal from the asus will probably be much better than theirs.

FWIW, the routers Verizon is giving out these days seem to be pretty premium gear. The OP alludes to having 6E service, so it might be the same CR1000A unit they gave me a few months ago. I'm not using the wifi component of it because the configurability is way more primitive than I've gotten used to with other makes, but there is nothing wrong with it hardware-wise. Don't bet on getting better signal from a replacement unit. I think the way forward will be two APs carefully placed, or at most 3 APs. I'm not sure if you could reasonably use Verizon's unit as one of the APs; maybe it'd work, but I didn't try such a setup. I just turned off its wifi and ran cables to two APs of my own.
 
FWIW, the routers Verizon is giving out these days seem to be pretty premium gear. The OP alludes to having 6E service, so it might be the same CR1000A unit they gave me a few months ago. I'm not using the wifi component of it because the configurability is way more primitive than I've gotten used to with other makes, but there is nothing wrong with it hardware-wise. Don't bet on getting better signal from a replacement unit. I think the way forward will be two APs carefully placed, or at most 3 APs. I'm not sure if you could reasonably use Verizon's unit as one of the APs; maybe it'd work, but I didn't try such a setup. I just turned off its wifi and ran cables to two APs of my own.

They're not junk by any means, I've just found all the ones with fixed internal antennas to be less than stellar coverage wise, and that's just a limitation of that design. The external antennas not only provide better signal but you know exactly how to aim them (and can see how they're aimed, rather than guessing).

If all else fails the ISP router with an AP connected via MOCA (not the 16000 as that is way overkill) would probably take care of it, even if they were at opposite ends of the house. Or maybe like you say run it with wifi disabled and the two ET12s as APs (if you can get two moca runs).

Or the FIOS router with wifi disabled and a centrally located AP is probably going to do it, depending of course on wall materials and layout.
 
An actual diagram of the condo layout would help here. Mark locations of the available ethernet or coax runs.

FWIW, for just 1600 sqft I'd expect to get by with two APs (or even one, except you seem to have proven that that's not enough). Wifi-opaque walls could be a reason to need more, but doesn't sound like you really have that. As a rule of thumb, fewer APs are better than more, as long as you can place them to cover the space.
We have a lot of walls that seem to effect the signal. Everything just isnt that ideal and I am not experienced enough to even know whats possible. My idea was to replace fios router with the axe16000, then have an et12 in the kitchen and in bedroom 2. Bedroom 2 has a PC, TV, PS5, Nintendo Switch I would like hardwired and MoCa was an awesome thing to learn exists. Just not sure given my wiring its possible. I bought an immense amount of ethernet to run from router around house with cable raceways, but it seems like there must be a better solution
 

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Your best bet, if possible, would be to run MOCA from the ONT ethernet port to the WAN of the router and place the router somewhere central. Depending where the coax is, you may be able to cut and add a drop somewhere, or just use couplers to make a single run out of existing runs. Even if it goes a bit roundabout, not a big deal as long as the distance doesn't become really long (unlikely in a condo scenario). If possible, disconnect that coax completely from the rest of the system and just use it as a direct point to point between the two MOCA adapters.

A single centrally located AP should be plenty for a condo. Worst case, the ISP router plus one other. Can't see why you'd need 4 APs.

If you really want to run the 16000 then I'd eliminate the ISP router and plug the asus directly into the ONT. The signal from the asus will probably be much better than theirs.

So basically, if there is a coax drop somewhere central, and that is a place you can put a router, then work backwards to get that coax run to the ONT and use MOCA.
Yeah I have no intention of keeping the fios router, i am going to return it before the free period ends and replace it with a *hopefully* better idea
 
FWIW, the routers Verizon is giving out these days seem to be pretty premium gear. The OP alludes to having 6E service, so it might be the same CR1000A unit they gave me a few months ago. I'm not using the wifi component of it because the configurability is way more primitive than I've gotten used to with other makes, but there is nothing wrong with it hardware-wise. Don't bet on getting better signal from a replacement unit. I think the way forward will be two APs carefully placed, or at most 3 APs. I'm not sure if you could reasonably use Verizon's unit as one of the APs; maybe it'd work, but I didn't try such a setup. I just turned off its wifi and ran cables to two APs of my own.
This is what my most recent conclusion was as well. Wanted to replace the fios router, then set up the mesh with the two ET12s. I drew out this rough diagram of my condo as someone else requested. I was thinking primary router and ONT where it is, node in bedroom #2 and node in kitchen or thereabouts.

I only recieved the ET12s so far and havent touched anything just yet. Still havent pulled the trigger on the router. Not sure if there are better options with my particular situation
 

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They're not junk by any means, I've just found all the ones with fixed internal antennas to be less than stellar coverage wise, and that's just a limitation of that design. The external antennas not only provide better signal but you know exactly how to aim them (and can see how they're aimed, rather than guessing).

If all else fails the ISP router with an AP connected via MOCA (not the 16000 as that is way overkill) would probably take care of it, even if they were at opposite ends of the house. Or maybe like you say run it with wifi disabled and the two ET12s as APs (if you can get two moca runs).

Or the FIOS router with wifi disabled and a centrally located AP is probably going to do it, depending of course on wall materials and layout.
I dont even know if MoCa can work given the wiring i have available. My parents initially had it installed, the coax runs from outside to bedroom #1, and then a separate run from attic follows same channel as fiber into my living room.

Confuses the hell out of me whats even useable given my situation. I dont have adapters or anything to test I dont think
 
Was the coax used for analog cable tv or only digital cable tv ?
look at the cover on the coax that is in the walls or attic. Does it say rg59 or rg6 ?
locate any splitters. They will need to be replaced with moca 2 certified if you need to use them.
i use a pair of gocoax moca 2.5 from my ONT to my isp router in my wiring closet Over rg6. No splitters. From there i have dedicated coax runs to each room using a pair of moca 2 bonded modems and a POE based AP where needed in house. 4 APs , 5GHz only, placed and tuned to avoid significant overlap. 2 story, 3200 sqr ft house, sheetrock walls.
 
fancy ooooweeee ultra awesome

All overpriced units with one mostly unusable shorter range band. Asus loves this type of ooooweeee customers. You don't need 3x routers, but perhaps 2x only and much cheaper and compact RT-AX86U Pro will give you the same user experience. You just need to wire the "node" and done. MoCA, Ethernet... even wireless - whatever is possible, all for 1/2 the price or less. If you need 2.5GbE LAN ports - GT-AX6000 or RT-AX88U Pro.
 
I dont even know if MoCa can work given the wiring i have available. My parents initially had it installed, the coax runs from outside to bedroom #1, and then a separate run from attic follows same channel as fiber into my living room.

Confuses the hell out of me whats even useable given my situation. I dont have adapters or anything to test I dont think

If it is coax, it will likely work, even if RG 58/59, as long as the overall distance isn't crazy long. If you aren't using it for TV you can just use couplers to create a dedicated run from point A to B.

But barring that, if you are going to keep the 16000 and ET12s then you can use a dedicated radio for backhaul and it should provide very good throughput and performance, maybe not a full gig depending on various factors.

But honestly you've invested a lot in equipment that will probably prove to be way overkill. Extending the FIOS ONT RJ45 port via MOCA to a central location, a single wifi6 (cheaper) router is probably plenty. Worst case, you then add a node or two if needed, in a mesh system you still want the master router centrally located.

The FIOS ONT actually supports MOCA natively but I'm not sure if the new ones can do full gig or MOCA 2.5 etc. The old ones capped out around 80 megs. Plus you'd need a compatible adapter for the other end, and call and have them switch your WAN to coax. I wouldn't even try that route, just use two of your own adapters. You can find them pretty cheap on amazon and ebay, often they'll be branded with a specific ISP but if you're just using them for point to point it doesn't matter, any MOCA 2.5 adapters should work fine.
 
All overpriced units with one mostly unusable shorter range band. Asus loves this type of ooooweeee customers. You don't need 3x routers, but perhaps 2x only and much cheaper and compact RT-AX86U Pro will give you the same user experience. You just need to wire the "node" and done. MoCA, Ethernet... even wireless - whatever is possible, all for 1/2 the price or less. If you need 2.5GbE LAN ports - GT-AX6000 or RT-AX88U Pro.
Yeah that was kind of what I was trying to get across with my absurdity towards the router lol.
But the layout and walls of my house, and my household being in complete disagreement with moving the ONTrouter, or running much cable at all has led to the router+mesh idea.

Condo association limits any work in the attic wiring so if the bedrooms and ONT coax arent communicating then MoCa wouldnt happen due to the association restrictions right? I am unsure about the specifics concerning where the two lines terminate and whether they communicated with one another at all. My parents had two xfinity tv recievers in use - one at each coax point if that helps at all.

Ethernet being run throughout the house is a fight in and of itself to convince everyone. In wall is off the table.

So, I am now leaning towards ditching the 6ghz as thats a complete sham to me, and use the xt12s and ax11000 with one of the 5ghz dedicated wireless backhaul. Possibly get a single ethernet from primary router into bedroom #2 --> xt12 --> 5port 2.5gb switch to feed PC, PS5, TV, Nintendo and then another from bedroom xt12 into bedroom #1 for the TV.
Second XT12 in kitchen location if necessary or useable.

The tri-band mesh is appealing to me especially as wired is nearly impossible to convince the household of.

Is this idea workable?
 
Was the coax used for analog cable tv or only digital cable tv ?
look at the cover on the coax that is in the walls or attic. Does it say rg59 or rg6 ?
locate any splitters. They will need to be replaced with moca 2 certified if you need to use them.
i use a pair of gocoax moca 2.5 from my ONT to my isp router in my wiring closet Over rg6. No splitters. From there i have dedicated coax runs to each room using a pair of moca 2 bonded modems and a POE based AP where needed in house. 4 APs , 5GHz only, placed and tuned to avoid significant overlap. 2 story, 3200 sqr ft house, sheetrock walls.
The work on the MoCa isnt really possible as you describe without outside hire as the condo association doesnt allow much intervention/work in the attic. Also private property restrictions as the attic is shared amongst 6 families.

But the layout and walls of my house, and my household being in complete disagreement with moving the ONTrouter, or running much cable at all has led to the router+mesh idea.

I am unsure about the specifics concerning where the two lines terminate and whether they communicated with one another at all. My parents had two xfinity tv recievers in use - one at each coax point if that helps at all.

Ethernet being run throughout the house is a fight in and of itself to convince everyone. In wall is off the table.

So, I am now leaning towards ditching the 6ghz as thats a complete sham to me, and use the xt12s and ax11000 with one of the 5ghz dedicated wireless backhaul. Possibly get a single ethernet from primary router into bedroom #2 --> xt12 --> 5port 2.5gb switch to feed PC, PS5, TV, Nintendo and then another from bedroom xt12 into bedroom #1 for the TV.
Second XT12 in kitchen location if necessary or useable.

The tri-band mesh is appealing to me especially as wired is nearly impossible to convince the household of.

Is this idea workable?
 
The work on the MoCa isnt really possible as you describe without outside hire as the condo association doesnt allow much intervention/work in the attic. Also private property restrictions as the attic is shared amongst 6 families.

But the layout and walls of my house, and my household being in complete disagreement with moving the ONTrouter, or running much cable at all has led to the router+mesh idea.

I am unsure about the specifics concerning where the two lines terminate and whether they communicated with one another at all. My parents had two xfinity tv recievers in use - one at each coax point if that helps at all.

Ethernet being run throughout the house is a fight in and of itself to convince everyone. In wall is off the table.

So, I am now leaning towards ditching the 6ghz as thats a complete sham to me, and use the xt12s and ax11000 with one of the 5ghz dedicated wireless backhaul. Possibly get a single ethernet from primary router into bedroom #2 --> xt12 --> 5port 2.5gb switch to feed PC, PS5, TV, Nintendo and then another from bedroom xt12 into bedroom #1 for the TV.
Second XT12 in kitchen location if necessary or useable.

The tri-band mesh is appealing to me especially as wired is nearly impossible to convince the household of.

Is this idea workable?

Sounds like running wires is not an option and the existing coax is likely using non-MOCA splitters, and if you can't work on it then that is not going to be of use to you.

I'd just put a router with dual 5ghz at the ONT, and a single node with dual 5ghz centrally located (or even possibly a bit toward the non-ONT side of the condo). That will likely give you the coverage you need. 6ghz backhaul can be quite good but only at shorter distances.

If you require wired devices that are not near either one, then you can use the 3rd node as a media bridge (if it supports that mode) for that. The reason I suggest media bridge is now it is just a client off the 2nd node (using its primary radio) and not acting as a repeater essentially (taking up capacity off the 2nd nodes backhaul radio). If it can get a decent signal off the main router then you can try using it as a standard node off that too, which will give you both wired and wireless. But you really don't want to overdo the wireless, too many is just as bad as not enough, sometimes worse.

Honestly, looking at your layout, unless the walls have metal or concrete in them, a single decent router at the ONT, placed up as high as possible, may be plenty. Use a media bridge (doesn't have to be anything as fancy as XT12) for anything wired. Or if you want the XT12 then make it a wireless aimesh node and plug your wired devices into it.
 
I appreciate the help guys. I'm gonna experiment with the wireless/wired mesh idea and the possible third node if somehow necessary. Admittedly I pulled the trigger on the XT12s, AX11000 and switch which seems to be unanimously agreed is overkill given my situation. I will return what I can if unnecessary. Im assuming itll be one of the routers after experimenting. Impulse control and fixations get out of control during bipolar mania + autism. TMI, but yeah the ins and outs of networking is certainly a new obsession. Coming from lockpicking 🤣.

Just curious here, if there is a noticeable difference, and if so which is better when it comes to wiring systems with the ethernet, device supply, etc. Here is everything I have available. Looking for info about what works/doesnt work and optimizations to be made given my situation. Running two Cat8 maximum from the router to the devices shown in the *extremely rough* layout drawing ive provided. Some examples.

ONT: Verizon Fios
Router: ASUS ROG Rapture GT-AX11000 Pro
Mesh: ZenWiFi XT12
Switch: TP-Link TL-SG105-M2
Ethernet: DbillionDa Cat8 various lengths.
Devices: TV-1, PC, PS5, Nintendo Switch
TV-2 ( in room that cant be directly from router)

1. ONT --> Router --> Node --> Switch --> 4devices
|-------> 1 device
Or

2. ONT --> Router --> Switch --> Node --> 2devices
|-------> 3 devices

3. ONT -- Router --> Mesh --> 1 device
|--------> Switch -- 4 devices

Better iterations? Any big optimizations to be had from specific devices from specific supply? Am I even in the right ballpark? Trying my best.

I am asking an immense amount it seems, but I truly find this stuff fascinating and I have lurked here for awhile and appreciate the experience/knowledge/input from you guys. Love to learn.
 

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The only immediate reaction I have to this list is that Cat8 cable is complete overkill. For home use you usually want Cat6 or Cat6A depending on length of run, and even Cat5 might be perfectly sufficient. Cat7 and Cat8 are designed for very long runs (100m plus), and/or speeds above 10Gbps, and/or fancy terminators that your equipment doesn't support. There's more about that in wikipedia's article, but the short answer is that anybody trying to sell you those for home use is not to be trusted.

Keep in mind also that these higher-spec cables tend to be thicker, harder to bend, harder to install, etc. I'm not quite sure why you're bandying such ideas around when you already stated that you have very little opportunity to run new cable at all. If you're speaking of three-foot patch cords then anything above Cat6 is just insanity.
 
Overkill? Most likely.

 
Coming from lockpicking 🤣.

Was a fun hobby until the Multipick Kronos came along and took all the challenge out of it. Though it is still fun to show people just how quickly I can get into their house.

Just curious here, if there is a noticeable difference, and if so which is better when it comes to wiring systems with the ethernet, device supply, etc. Here is everything I have available. Looking for info about what works/doesnt work and optimizations to be made given my situation. Running two Cat8 maximum from the router to the devices shown in the *extremely rough* layout drawing ive provided. Some examples.

ONT: Verizon Fios
Router: ASUS ROG Rapture GT-AX11000 Pro
Mesh: ZenWiFi XT12
Switch: TP-Link TL-SG105-M2
Ethernet: DbillionDa Cat8 various lengths.
Devices: TV-1, PC, PS5, Nintendo Switch
TV-2 ( in room that cant be directly from router)

1. ONT --> Router --> Node --> Switch --> 4devices
|-------> 1 device
Or

2. ONT --> Router --> Switch --> Node --> 2devices
|-------> 3 devices

3. ONT -- Router --> Mesh --> 1 device
|--------> Switch -- 4 devices

Better iterations? Any big optimizations to be had from specific devices from specific supply? Am I even in the right ballpark? Trying my best.

I am asking an immense amount it seems, but I truly find this stuff fascinating and I have lurked here for awhile and appreciate the experience/knowledge/input from you guys. Love to learn.


If you can hardwire the ONT to a router in the living room position, that should give you wifi coverage in the entire condo, likely no nodes needed.

Then run a wire from living room to bed 2 if possible and just connect that to a switch.. You can dress it up with a wall plate on either side with RJ45 couplers (they make snap in keystone versions). Even if you need more ports, you can get an 8 port TP Link or Netgear switch for $20 to $30.

Is anyone really going to notice if you sneak in the attic and drop some ethernets down the wall cavities (probably quietly drill some holes in the top plate for them)? That's what I'd do.

If you want the super duper gaming router, keep the 11000 and return the two XT12s. If you bought the XT12s as a 2 pack that may be your only option anyway. If you can return just one XT12 and the 11000, the single XT12 is probably all you need, but you'd have to try and see.

Any Cat5e or greater cable is fine, don't spend extra money on fancy cables. Cat5e is rated for 2.5Gig up to 100 meters.

Beware of the flat ethernet cables though, many don't actually meet their claims, though at shorter distances like what you have they probably will work fine at 1G or 2.5G even. If running in the walls, don't bother with flat, just good old round patch cables. If you're trying to run along trim, around doors, etc then the flat cable may be more attractive, and it looks like the distance is probably 50 feet or less, so they would probably be fine (even at 100 feet might be ok).

In your original posts you mentioned AXE-16000 and ET12s, but later posts you're talking about AXE-11000 and XT12s. Shouldn't change anything but just not sure when ones you're dealing with or which would make more sense from a cost perspective to return/cancel.

In reality it may make more sense to return it all and go with a single AX6000, AX86 Pro, or AX-11000. You likely aren't going to use 6ghz right?
 
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