R7800 better than R7000 for 5GHz?

[ablatt]

I have been using the R7000 successfully for the last couple of years. It is placed on the middle of 3 floors, and I have been getting decent 5GHz signal throughout the house.

A couple of days ago someone moved in next to me and has a Rogers/Hitron gateway running 5GHz on channel 157, 80 MHz wide.

This overlaps my 40 MHz 5GHz channel, regardless of which higher channel (149 currently) I use. I noticed none of the lower UNII-1 channels are being used.

Since the R7000 was released before the 2014 FCC allowance of higher power on low 5GHz channels, I have been considering buying a new router. I have looked at AC2600 (like X4S) and AC5300 models.

If someone could help, I have a few questions:

1. Can you run 80MHz wide channels in the lower UNII-1 (channel 44) range?
2. With the higher power now available, will I get the same range on lower channels as the higher ones?
3. Should I go AC2600 or AC5300? Money is not an issue. Don't think I need two 5GHz radios. I've been looking at the R7800 although there are the odd complaints in the forums about it.

 

[RogerSC]

I have a neighbor like yours. He is splat in the middle of the upper channels. What I've done is to splat right on the same channel that he's on, and that works fine for me. He started on channel 149, so that's where I went, and has shifted to channel 157 now, and that's where I am. From what I've read, it wouldn't be good if I was on a different channel, since there would be overlap between two 80MHz. channels on the upper channels, and the wireless chips do better at sorting things out if you're on the same channel rather than overlapping.

I do see full ISP download speed on wireless around my house. I have found that the R7800 is a little stronger on wireless than the R7000 here, a few dBm, but not enough to make a difference as far as interference goes. Like I said, though, the R7800 seems perfectly able to sort things out for itself.

Yes, you can try the lower channels, and, at least here in the US, you can use 80MHz. channel width there. You might just try it with your R7000 and see what you see.

Having had an R7000 since it came out, I have virtually no complaints currently with the R7800 in comparison with what I went through with the R7000 early on. The R7800 has been great out of the gate, and continues to serve me well. I'm currently using the stock firmware, but would like to switch to dd-wrt ASAP, when it is looking better...I've tried it a couple of times, and switched back to stock for wireless strength and throughput.

I wouldn't go to one of the more expensive routers (AC5300) unless you have extreme bandwidth needs, there really is no need for them currently, in my opinion.

 

[ablatt]

I have a neighbor like yours. He is splat in the middle of the upper channels. What I've done is to splat right on the same channel that he's on, and that works fine for me. He started on channel 149, so that's where I went, and has shifted to channel 157 now, and that's where I am. From what I've read, it wouldn't be good if I was on a different channel, since there would be overlap between two 80MHz. channels on the upper channels, and the wireless chips do better at sorting things out if you're on the same channel rather than overlapping.

I do see full ISP download speed on wireless around my house. I have found that the R7800 is a little stronger on wireless than the R7000 here, a few dBm, but not enough to make a difference as far as interference goes. Like I said, though, the R7800 seems perfectly able to sort things out for itself.

Yes, you can try the lower channels, and, at least here in the US, you can use 80MHz. channel width there. You might just try it with your R7000 and see what you see.

Having had an R7000 since it came out, I have virtually no complaints currently with the R7800 in comparison with what I went through with the R7000 early on. The R7800 has been great out of the gate, and continues to serve me well. I'm currently using the stock firmware, but would like to switch to dd-wrt ASAP, when it is looking better...I've tried it a couple of times, and switched back to stock for wireless strength and throughput.

I wouldn't go to one of the more expensive routers (AC5300) unless you have extreme bandwidth needs, there really is no need for them currently, in my opinion.

Rogers SC, thanks for the reply.

If you are using an 80MHz wide channel, aren't you using all the channels from 149 to 165?

I've set my R7000 to 80MHz on channel 149 and he's also 80MHz wide on channel 157. I ues WiFI explorer on my MAC and it shows me as Primary Channel 149, Channel Center Frequency 155. It shows him as Primary Channel 157, Channel Center Frequency 155 (same as mine). Both graphically take up the same space on the chart.

Why havent you tried the lower channels on the R7800? Supposedly they run at the same power level now as the upper channels and should allow you to move away from your neighbor.

Reading over past posts of yours and others on the R7800 - are the Apple sleep, IPv6 and unidentified network issues now resolved with the latest firmware?

 

[thiggins]

1. Can you run 80MHz wide channels in the lower UNII-1 (channel 44) range?

Yes. 80MHz is required for 802.11ac operation.

2. With the higher power now available, will I get the same range on lower channels as the higher ones?

Theoretically, yes.

3. Should I go AC2600 or AC5300? Money is not an issue. Don't think I need two 5GHz radios. I've been looking at the R7800 although there are the odd complaints in the forums about it.

If you want a 4x4 product, I would go with a QCA-based product (AC2600). The Broadcom chipset that is used in AC3100/3150 and AC5300 is still relatively new.

 

[ablatt]

Yes. 80MHz is required for 802.11ac operation.
Theoretically, yes.
If you want a 4x4 product, I would go with a QCA-based product (AC2600). The Broadcom chipset that is used in AC3100/3150 and AC5300 is still relatively new.

Thanks Tim,

I know most of the routers in this article you wrote used Broadcom chips, but can you explain the dismal 5GHZ uplink performanc on Channel 44 in http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...32896-will-a-new-ac-router-bring-you-wifi-joy ? Have you seen the same on QCA AC2600 routers?

Also, do any popular existing products in the U.S. region use DFS yet?

 

[thiggins]

I haven't run a similar open air test on AC2600 products, sorry.

No, DFS isn't implemented on most U.S. consumer routers. I'm told there are some products that will use DFS channels if you select Auto channel mode, but I have not confirmed this.

Ignition Design Labs is supposed to ship a new router soon that will bring DFS to the consumer market.

http://www.snbforums.com/threads/new-router-grabs-more-5-ghz-channels-to-speed-up-your-wi-fi.32462/

 

[RogerSC]

Rogers SC, thanks for the reply.

If you are using an 80MHz wide channel, aren't you using all the channels from 149 to 165?

I've set my R7000 to 80MHz on channel 149 and he's also 80MHz wide on channel 157. I ues WiFI explorer on my MAC and it shows me as Primary Channel 149, Channel Center Frequency 155. It shows him as Primary Channel 157, Channel Center Frequency 155 (same as mine). Both graphically take up the same space on the chart.

Why havent you tried the lower channels on the R7800? Supposedly they run at the same power level now as the upper channels and should allow you to move away from your neighbor.

Reading over past posts of yours and others on the R7800 - are the Apple sleep, IPv6 and unidentified network issues now resolved with the latest firmware?

I haven't tried the lower channels yet since the R7800 is the only router that I have that might have full power on the lower channels. I'm kind of used to using the upper channels, so that's where I go first. I may try the lower channels on the R7800 at some point and see how that looks. Not driven to do so. I also have neighbors on those *smile*. Lots of wireless networks in my neighborhood.

Yes, the Apple sleep and IPv6 problems on the R7800 are fixed, at least for me. I have 4 Apple devices here, no problems. And IPv6 is up all the time, no problem (Comcast). I've only seen the "unidentified network" problem once, and it was when I when I had booted Windows on my dual-boot desktop. So it really wasn't a problem to just reboot the router. I'd rather not have had that happen, but that's the only time that I've had to reboot for functional problems. Otherwise the router has been solid on the stock firmware. I wouldn't worry about it...but then looking up "Netgear Guy" to ask him about the unidentified network thing (has it been reported to Netgear and ETA for a fix if there is one yet) is on my to-do list *smile*.

 

[ablatt]

One question I still have is whether using 3rd party firmware like Kong, XVortex or Tomato on my existing R7000 will allow changing of the region code to enable higher power than the FCC specifies on the lower 5GHz channels.

I am very confused reading about it as to whether the device is locked down by where it was manufactured at some basic low level firmware or hardware level.

 

[ablatt]

I installed the R7800 yesterday. It appears, the low 5GHz channels do provide the same power, range and throughput as the upper channels.

It performs similarly to the R7000 on 5GHz at the high channels and of course much better at the low channels since it doesn't have the same power limitations by the FCC. The 2.4GHz is a bit stronger on the R7800 than the R7000.

So for people competing with 80MHz wide 5GHz channels, where all the available spectrum is used up at the high channels, the R7800 does provide a clear benefit over the R7000 since it opens up another 80MHz possibility.

 

[sfx2000]

Yes. 80MHz is required for 802.11ac operation.

Fun note - All STA's (both Client's and AP's) must support 80MHz, but they can run 20/40/80/160MHz in operation... but the Must statement in the spec guarantee's a bit of interop at 5GHz at least...

Another way of putting it - in a BSS/ESS, the AP's the boss, and it can choose to run the BSS at whatever rate it wants to - and if running, let's say at 160MHz, it must support 80MHz client stations - but if it chooses to run at 40MHz, then that's the link the clients will use...